The Reverie Room: Shariq x Jonna x Mike

 

Hey folks - I was lucky enough to recently stay at a lovely DEN A-Frame in the Poconos. I was enamored with this build - thoughtfully and stylishly done, I felt I must speak to the folks behind the build. Today, I'm thrilled to share that conversation with y'all. Sit back and relax as Shariq and Jonna tell me all about their experience building a DEN A-Frame in the Poconos!

Check out their Airbnb page here, and their IG @thereverieroom.

1. Meet Jonna & Shariq: A Surgeon and a Full-Time STR Pro

Mike: All right guys. We're gonna start with the easy questions first. First, tell us who are you, and where did you build a DEN and which DEN design did you guys pursue? 

Jonna: I'm Jonna. 

Shariq: I'm Shariq. 

Jonna: We're husband and wife. Yeah. And business partners. 

Shariq: Yeah. We built the DEN A-Frame 2.2, in the Poconos. 

Mike: Awesome.

Awesome. Do you guys also live in Pennsylvania? 

Jonna: We do. We're in [the] suburbs just outside of Philadelphia, and we, invest in real estate. We have a few up in the Poconos, some here in the area and some in California. 

Mike: Oh, amazing. How many properties do you have under management currently? 

Jonna: Seven. 

Mike: Seven.

Holy smokes. You guys are pros.

Yeah. I can't wait to jump in. That's cool. That's cool 

Jonna: Rookie status still, I think. But... 

Mike: you know, it's like the training wheels might be on the bike, but the bike is moving down the road, so it's all, yeah, it's all good. 

Jonna: I think we have enough experience to talk about building and managing properties and short-term rentals and, how DEN fits in with that.

So we're excited to share with everybody. 

Mike: Awesome, awesome. What do you guys do during the day? Like, is anyone full-time on this business? Do you guys also have day jobs? What does your, your lives look like? 

Jonna: Shariq has a day job. 

Shariq: I am a trauma surgeon. 

Mike: Wow. Cool. Okay.

Shariq: Yep. But this has been a passion, so whatever time I can get, I try and put into real estate. 

Jonna: He's my employee and I'm sort of full-time on the real estate stuff, so.

Mike: Amazing. Amazing. 

Jonna: I operate them. 

Mike: That's so cool. My partner is a particle physicist, right? And has like, worked in academia for the past, like 13 years. And last night she was like, 'Hey, I wanna like look at your LinkedIn, like what does your like LinkedIn look like?' Because she doesn't have a LinkedIn. Right? She's just like been in academia for so long. 

Shariq: Yeah. 

Mike: And I was like looking at my LinkedIn and I realized that I'm coming up on my five year anniversary as the CEO of DEN.

Shariq: Oh, congratulations! 

Mike: Thank you. Thank you.

I remember 'cause like DEN started before the timeline that I saw on LinkedIn and I remember the moment that like, I was like, 'oh wow, I can actually eke out a salary and like officially be like the CEO and founder of this company'.

Right? So, it's amazing, that the real estate business provides, you know, enough to support two employees. So like, congratulations! If it's cash flowing to that extent that like, one and a half of you can like, focus on it entirely, like that's great.

And, uh, Shariq, like the, you know, the fact that you're a trauma surgeon, certainly probably gives you enough scar tissue, pardon the pun, to deal with like unruly guests and like, you know. 

Shariq: More than anything, I think it's very cathartic and it's very grounding.

I find it very peaceful to work in construction and building. I think it's just very relaxing after a long day and a long night. 

Mike: I hear you. As a software designer by trade, it's like, to be able to just do things in the physical space and like have this kind of like lasting outcome.

You know, being like a house in itself is like an incredibly rewarding experience, you know, and like you guys also get to share that with your guests, across this portfolio that you guys manage, which is, I'm sure feels really, really good to do.

2. From Flip to Ground-Up: Why They Chose DEN

Mike: So, across these seven properties, how many of them did you build from the ground up, or was this your first time up to bat?

Shariq: So I had grown up around construction. My parents did some ground up construction, so I, as a kid growing up, I was familiar with the process, but we'd never really done one before. Jonna and I together had done some heavy rehab, like down to the studs and rebuild, uh, those kind of things.

Hadn't really tackled any ground up construction before, but started two projects together almost. One was this one that we were talking about today and another in California. So there was a lot of learning ground up certainly is a whole beast on its own. But before doing this, DEN - and the other one simultaneously- we did not have any ground up experience.

Mike: Oh wow. Cool. What about DEN attracted you to the business, right? Or attracted you to the design portfolio? Like was it this specific design? Like was it an aspect of our process? What landed you at our front door? 

Shariq: Yeah. So I was looking for options for both lands.

One of them is in the California one is right outside Joshua Tree. It's a exceptional piece of land. And the one here that is in the Poconos. And I was looking at options that we could build smaller footprint or medium sized footprint that also could be sort of cool looking. Around this time Covid had started, there was a lot of YouTube videos about container homes and prefab homes.

So I started looking into those and then all the permitting issues that come with them. So I'd actually looked at OOD, OOD. It's a mirror house from... in Texas and, I think from Talon, shout out to them. They're a great team. I love their product. Also Honamobo. So I looked at those, but again, those are prefabs or container home style with a lot of permitting issues.

So I went back to stick build the regular build and there's honestly not too many cool plan options out there. And DEN kept coming up. I kept looking over and over. And that, DEN was definitely one of the main ones that I really liked. And then Robuilt who i'm sure a lot of your, you know, audiences will also know.

He mentioned you once and I looked at all the plans and this was absolutely the coolest looking, tightest project and I think everything was laid out very well, that I could like take a leap and say that I think this will be a great fit. 

Mike: Awesome, awesome. And yeah, shout out to Rob, right?

Like hopefully he'll listen to this. We actually, it's kind of crazy. We actually have a ton of overlap. Between customers and, and audiences. That's really, really cool. You know, not, not surprisingly, like a lot of people gravitate towards the designs. We also spend a bunch of time just like trying to make the construction documents, all the assets that we provide to you guys, as robust as possible, to take a lot of the guesswork out of the process.

3. The Build: Permits, Progress, and the “Mile High” Loft

Mike: That's cool. That's good to hear. And then in terms of this stick-built conundrum that you guys had. So the property that you built on is part of a planned community or HOA, is that correct? 

Shariq: Yes. 

Mike: Got it, got it. And I'm sure like the HOA board, has like... i'm sure that there's like provisions that prevent certain types of housing from appearing in the community.

Is that right? 

Shariq: Exactly. Yeah. So there are ways that... i'm very familiar with the coding and all that. Now, having read through so many things, I think it was more the township and how, if you are doing prefab and everything's done at the remote site, then they cannot inspect it during different stages.

So one of the options was to maybe fly out a local, like an inspector. Each time there are new stage is done. Like the electrical's done, and then you pay to have them fly out to the factory and they inspect it and fly back. And that's certainly an option, but it is pretty costly that way. But I think a lot of it is the township, more so than the HOA.

The HOA does have some rules, but those were not as restrictive in our, situation. 

Jonna: Except the height of the A-frame. 

Shariq: Yeah, I was gonna talk about that in the plan, but like, one of the only things that came out of the HOA thing was that they had a height section for which, for this plan, we had to drop the height down, which took some of the headroom out of the upstairs bathroom.

Mike: Gotcha, gotcha. But you guys still manage, so full disclosure, I've stayed at this particular A-frame. It was awesome. Despite having to drop the height, can you tell us, I don't wanna steal your thunder about what's happening at the peak of the A-Frame. 

Shariq: Oh, that's all interior design and all of that is hers.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Jonna: We couldn't waste that space. So we just had the builder create, a little vibey nook at the very top and put just some cool lighting and some cushions, so we didn't wanna waste that space. So that sits above the bathroom, at the top of the A-frame. And the bathroom itself is basically a wet room.

The whole room is the shower and the toilet and the sink is in there. But we think it still is a very useful space. And, cool. 

Mike: Yeah. That's awesome. And there's a sign in this super upstairs loft. What does the sign say? 

Jonna: Yes. Oh my gosh. We have a neon sign that says mile high.

One thing that we have found is that, the A-Frame attracts people that are looking for like a romantic getaway. And so we are really leaning into that. And, so yeah, we call it the mile high room. 

Mike: That's, that's amazing. 

Shariq: You know? 

Jonna: Love it! Yeah. Kids love it the most. 

Shariq: Yes. Yes, they do.

Mike: This podcast series like happens upon real gems, you know, from time to time and like this, this mile high, like little like cozy loft space that like you guys managed to like, customize into the plan is like definitely one of them. Obviously I had to like, check out every single space in the A-frame.

Um. But I would say, so we traveled to the A-Frame with a four and 6-year-old, and they actually love that space the most. They were just like, in the morning, like Tereza and I were like still sleeping, or like half asleep, right? And the kids were just like super eager to head up there.

They're like, can we do it? Can we do it? So I tasked the 6-year-old for making sure, you know, to ensure his sister's safety. I was like, 'you better be careful with her'. And they just spent, like, they spent almost the whole morning just like hanging out and like on their iPads.

Just like in the Cozy Nook in the mile high room. 

Jonna: Yeah. That's what it's for. Yeah. 

Mike: It's like a tree house inside. 

Jonna: Exactly. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Shariq: Just for making kids. It's -

Mike: Oh, well played. Well played. Well played. But yes. That's awesome. That's awesome. And. Yeah. So tell us, maybe just give us a little background too, like how long did the project take, right? Like from end to end? Let's call it like from once you got the permit approved, first shovel into the ground through to like turnkey done.

Shariq: Yeah. I think, we were a little delayed because of the weather. It was getting too cold to start and some permit delays, but once we started, I think from shovel in to finishing was a little over a year. And that was because of... Our contractor is amazing, but he did have a family member pass away.

So there was a little bit of a hiatus, but I'd say two months. But even then, he was amazing to work with. I would recommend him to anyone, Twin Builders in Poconos and, you know, start to finish their construction quality and communication and delivering on what they promised. What he promised was amazing.

So I'd say about a year, but without the delay, it could have been done in about 10 months. 

Mike: Amazing! Yeah. 

Shariq: With us being very picky about, 'hey, you know, redo this wall or change this back the other way'. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, what a cool experience, right? It's like life happens, both clients and builders like need to work together to get to the finish line.

And it's also just great to hear. That business integrity and integrity towards craft is, you know, still available to folks, right? And that you're able to cross the finish line together, like despite this family issue that emerged mid-process. And, I think like getting the whole project done, like within a year is still a really good timeframe, honestly, for the size of this house and, the uniqueness of the design and the construction.

So, I think like net- net, that's a win. But that's great. Yeah. Yeah. And then, like, I've asked this question a bunch of times, and I'm so curious to hear what you guys think, but like, what was your favorite part of the construction process?

Jonna: You have one. 

Shariq: For me it's always... framing is so amazing because it just, from ground to like... you see so much progress so quickly. So framing is always a very exciting time. We had never built an A-frame before. I'd never even, I don't think, been in one. So the day the metal roof went on and I saw it the next day, that's dark black, that's amazing, I think that really felt like, 'oh my gosh, this looks super cool'.

And then when the siding went on and it was all black and very cool against the trees and stuff. So I think those are the two highlights for me. 

Jonna: Yeah, I think so too. Yeah. When it turns from like sticks into just like this black,  you know, um... 

Mike: volume. 

Jonna: Yeah. And it's like you envision it and then it's there in front of you.

And I remember having a moment once they actually put the deck on the front and I was like, 'oh my gosh, it's a house. It's amazing'.

But yeah, so many, so many moments, throughout the year. It's just like, when they put the siding on the paneling on the inside, on the wood paneling.

That was really striking. And I don't know, there were just certain moments that we were like, 'wow, this looks so good'. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Nice, nice. Believe it or not, that's pretty much what everyone says. They're, they're just like, 'when the whole thing like starts to become more real and like they can see, like the outline of the house'.

And then we'll go top one, bottom one. What was your least favorite part of the construction process? Or what was the realest part? You know, or like the part with the most friction that you wanna make people aware of. 

Jonna: It was the beginning, right? 

Shariq: I think the beginning is a little bit rough.

It being like a brand new, ground up construction. So, permitting and structural... The county that I'm in, they were really not easy to deal with, 'cause they made me go through extra hoops to get a Pennsylvania licensed structural engineer stamp the plans, which had me go through extra steps for no reason. They really didn't do anything, honestly. 

Jonna: And timing, you know, 'cause you have to reach out to people and they're like, we'll get to it in three weeks or whatever. And we're on a timeline, you know, we've gotta get to closing and stuff like that. It just, it felt really kind of stressful.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. 

Shariq: But after that, I think the plans were so amazing. The DEN plans were like so specific and so clean that there wasn't a lot of like, gray area between us and our contractor. And we knew what to expect and he knew what he had to deliver. So, finishing is always a little bit slower compared to framing and all that.

So it takes ' come on, let's do it, let's do it'. But like, I think the beginning was the hardest part. 

Mike: Yeah. Gotcha, gotcha. I think when we first spoke about this, like you mentioned that you had acquired the property and were considering selling the property, right? Like there, the project was like up in the air and then like, you know, the DEN solution essentially helped you thread the needle on like what to do with it.

Shariq: Yeah, yeah. So we do have other properties and it's always like, you know. Whether I invest in this one to build it and look at a year to two years in the future, or should we just sell this lot and like, add an amenity to another short term rental or acquire another property or something.

So I considered selling it and the market had slowed down by that point and I was like, 'you know once we cut the trees, it has some water views and stuff, so I don't think it's the worst property and with the right plan, I think this would be a success'.

And, you know, DEN, it was just very serendipitous that I came across DEN's beautiful form. And the plan. And I was like, 'this is gonna be perfect for that lot'. And, yeah. So I ended up not selling it and it was a great decision. I think. 

Mike: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. And you said the magic word as far as, STR strategy goes these days, amenity and amenitized, you know, experiences, right?

4. Designing the Guest Experience: Romance, Xbox & Future Amenities

Mike: So like you guys, the property itself has a view shed towards a lake. Right? And like what other, besides the mile high room, like what other kind of like creature comforts did you add to the experience of staying there to make it really memorable for your guests? 

Jonna: Yeah, so the community we mentioned it's an HOA, so there's amenities there, which is really nice.

Um, lakes, playgrounds, tennis courts, all of that stuff. Pools. We can start outside the home: there's a hot tub and a fire pit. Now that the weather is nicer, we're gonna start looking at other outdoor amenities to really improve people's experience.

On the inside I think that people are really looking more and more. For architecture and interior design. I think historically in the Poconos people come up and stay and they go hiking or skiing. And it hasn't mattered much. When we started up in the Poconos four years ago or whatever, it was just a lot of dated, not cool, paneling, wood paneling and like bare, decor.

But now it's much more sophisticated. People are seeking a mountain experience and they wanna stay in something that's cool. And the A-frame really fits that. Like people love a-frames up there. So just the architecture, interior design, and then we have an Xbox and, luxury linens, soaking tub and, um, what am I missing?

No, I think that just the little games. Yeah. You know, stuff like that. 

Shariq: That's about it. And in terms of like plans for outside, I think our, now that our backs are a little straightened out, our plans are to add a sauna and a swimming pool to the backyard. 

Mike: Nice. Nice. Yeah. So you guys have a jacuzzi right now?

The kids spend a bunch of time in it. They loved it. We loved it. Awesome. No one got a chance to take a Tubby a, you know, a bath. But like that room really came together. I gotta say. Stunning. Yeah, and the freestanding tub looks incredible and looking out into the backyard is really tranquil.

Outta curiosity, like how are you guys gonna approach the sauna? Are you guys gonna buy a kit? Are you gonna build it yourself? Are you gonna have a builder do it? What are the solutions that you guys are, are thinking about? 

Jonna: I don't even know what solutions exist. I didn't know. But I think we were just looking at, things that like, just how do they come, I don't know.

Costco sells them. Like, do I have to build it myself? I don't know. 

Shariq: Yeah, there's quite a few options as you can imagine. And also like a wide range. You can buy something cheap from Costco four person or whatever. There's a company out of Finland that just came out with a solar powered one.

Believe it or not. It's very cool. It's not available in the US yet. And then, OOD, that company makes one too, which is very cool. So I think it will all depend upon, uh, price point, but very early on, I also have to budget in, like we also are talking about a pool, so trying to see how much to spend on each and yeah.

Where it'll fit and, how modern to make it versus how rustic, those are always the question. Yeah, 

Mike: Yeah. Well, I'm asking, asking for a friend, right? Because, uh, DEN is sitting on about like 12 new sauna designs, that like 

Jonna: I was gonna ask! 

Mike: Yeah. That enterprise, this like modular system.

So you could either have like a big kind of like eight to 12 [00:18:00] person sauna. Like a four to eight person sauna , two to four person sauna, and then just like a two person sauna. And then we've got these like modular, you know, the notion of these like modular changing rooms or like chill out rooms or like even deck components.

So you could put like a cold plunge, for example, like right next. 

Shariq: No, this is amazing. cold plunge was one of the other things I was thinking of adding outside. Mm-hmm. So that's great. 

Mike: I just have to ask, like, has anyone here like cold plunged, is anyone familiar with the experience of- No!

Jonna: We provide the experiences. We don't have time to do that. 

Mike: To do them. Okay. Okay. Yeah. 

Shariq: Time. Time is the biggest limiting factor. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I got it. Got it. Yeah. You know, I joked with my partner, because both her and I agreed, uh, that cold plunging is great. And I was like, so you wanna be like a tech bro with me?

And like, and put a cold plunge on the balcony. And we did. And now the kids actually, I mean, we cold plunge all the time. In really, really cold water. Like 45 degree water. 40 degree water. And like, we'll like set the Amazon, like Alexa timer up, you know, and like, and we'll see how long we can go for.

Um, but the kids very like endearingly call it a cold punch. 

Shariq: Yeah. 

They're not wrong, right? 

Mike: Yeah, exactly. They're like, are you guys gonna cold punch? And I'm like, ah, I don't think so today. 

Jonna: That's so cute. 

Mike: I know, I know. So, cool. I've got only a few more questions left, right. Before we get to the final few, tell us like how, people can find this particular property and the other ones. Do you guys have, you know, like a kinda emerging like boutique hospitality brand.

Do you have a direct booking platform? Do you just use Airbnb? Like, what does that look like for you guys? 

Jonna: So right now we're, Airbnb, VRBO. We consider the direct booking thing. We haven't done it yet. But you can find us on Instagram at the Reverie Room, and Airbnb through your website even.

Mike: Nice. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then, yeah, tell us like, it's in the Poconos, but if I was searching on Airbnb. What like area am I even searching in to like find the A-frame? 

Jonna: Yep. So the community is called Indian Mountain Lakes. The city is Albrightsville.

It's close to Lake Harmony. It's kind of like a good location. You're close to Blue Mountain, you're close to Jack Frost Mountains for the wintertime. Pretty close to Hickory Run State Park. So there's a lot of really good outdoor, activities right in the area. We're very, very close to, Pocono raceway for our, race fans.

Um, so yeah. 

Mike: Awesome. And I think, if my memory serves me, we were the first guest, Right? That stayed there. Is that right? 

Jonna: That's right, yeah. 

Mike: Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. And then, and then this was like already a couple weeks ago, but like how has the booking calendar looked since then?

Jonna: It's good. I would say, this is kind of the slow season for the Poconos, which is good. It's a good time to get started. The calendar's starting to fill up and I think that once people kind of switch into, summertime mode, that's when, the calendar will really fill up. But you know, it's still, it's still pretty new.

So we've hosted, um, a few people and we've got some bookings still up this month, but um, I'm excited to start getting feedback and reviews. 

Mike: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like our reviews, five out of five stars, we had a great time. It was like, well, well appointed. You know, you guys asked me like for feedback and I was like, you know, I was like, 'really well executed'.

5. Advice for Future Builders: “DEN Was the Best Product”

Mike: Right. It is my only feedback. So excited for other people to, to get a chance to stay there. Um, and then, okay, so, maybe the last question, right. If you had a friend who wanted to pursue a similar project, what advice would you give them? 

Shariq: First of all, I would absolutely a hundred percent recommend DEN.

You know, I've looked at many options since DEN, and I still keep going back to DEN was the best product and remains the best product. I would say just look at the total cost of the project. Don't overbuild for where you are. Fortunately we didn't do that. And in terms of like plans, this was the goal was STR from the get-go for this.

So defining that goal was very important. 'cause if this is for us, I might have gone larger or smaller. I'm not sure, but. I knew that I needed, uh, x number of bedrooms, x number of heads, which is why we looked at, you know, only three bedroom options. And then we added another, couple of bunk rooms, bunk beds in one of the closets.

'cause I don't need closets in this, uh, STR that people are only coming for two nights usually. So I would say define the goal that you want and then, pick the right footprint. A-frames are great. The only downside is sometimes it's a little bit harder to construct and you'll need lose a little bit of, square footage just because of the, you know, the way the ceilings are.

But it is well worth it , to lose that little bit of room, I think. 

Mike: For the A-Frame curb appeal, huh? 

Jonna: Yeah. And one thing I wanna mention, we told you that we started two ground up projects at the same time. And I think it's worth mentioning that, the other one is nowhere near being completed and has been way harder.

So between the two, I think that there's a huge benefit to going with DEN. Because you just, it's done. Everything is done. You have the renderings, you know what it, you know what it's gonna look like. Everybody else, the bank knows what it's gonna look like if you're using financing.

It's just, it's way easier. So all of that stuff is done and we didn't use, DEN or anybody else, like, we're just kind of doing everything.

Yeah. 

Mike: Awesome. Yeah, I mean, like, for me, like starting this company, it was really a thesis of try to deliver on, productizing that aspect of this process, right?

Us and our design team spending countless hours on each design obsessing about it, you know, like trying to get everything detailed and also trying to think about the variability of like, where it could possibly be built and accommodate for that within the kind of like a singular product offering.

Right. Um, but yeah, it's cool. It's cool to also see, like people gravitate towards that and like feel the value of that. So, you know, in the end it's like we thank you, humbly, for choosing DEN, and being our kind customers and, executing this and putting up another cool DEN, A-Frame, this time in the Poconos.

Jonna: You guys have great designs. It shows that you work hard on it. They're sexy, modern, and I can't tell the future, but I think we're not done with DEN. So yeah, we'll see what else we absolutely come up with in the future. 

Mike: Awesome. Awesome. Well, um, well cool. Great to hang out with you both.

Thanks for spending some time with me. And yeah, on behalf of the whole team at DEN, thank you again.