Northcoast House: Ben x Katey x Mike

Hey everyone, excited to share a chat I had a few weeks back with y'all today. Meet Ben & Katey, first time homebuilders (with DEN) who have turned their DEN plans into a successful STR business. Join us as we chat about the build journey, aesthetic considerations and the joys of operating a small-scale short term rental business, which they've named North Coast House. 

Find North Coast Houses IG here, and their Airbnb here. 

1. Intro & Background

Mike: Let's just start with some basic context questions. Who are you? What DEN design did you base your project off of, and where did you do it and when did you start?

Give us some background. 

Ben: Great question. Uh, I'm Ben. 

Katey: I'm Katey. 

Ben: We did the Barnhouse Plus design. We started the process just under two years ago. We bought a plot of land, in an area called Garden Bay, British Columbia. So it's about three hours outside of Vancouver, in a region called the Sunshine Coast, which is part of the mainland, but you have to take the ferry to get here, actually, which is quite cool.

Kind of breaks up the drive with a little 40 minute ferry ride. And it's an area that is very kind of remote, full of trees, as you can see behind me. Uh, lots of little lakes, and then this property that we bought here is really nestled right between the lake and the ocean.

So we're about a five minute walk to a lake. We're about a 10 minute walk to the ocean, the Pacific Ocean in one direction as well. So pretty cool, pretty unique... environment. Yeah, so we did the Barnhouse Plus and, we bought the land February, 2022.

2. Project Timeline

Ben: Construction really started in earnest, probably I would say April, 2024. That's not right. 2023. 2023. No. 

Katey: Yeah, you got it. Yeah. It took a year. 2024. 

Ben: Um, my math is wrong. 

Katey: You got it. 2024. 

Ben: We bought the property February, 2023. 

Katey: 2022. But then we sat on it, and then we built in 2023. And it took a year to do it. 

Ben: That's right, that's right, that's right.

Katey: Full circle. 

Ben: April, 2023 is when it started. 

Katey: Yeah. 

Mike: Awesome. Awesome. You guys heavily customized this design, right? 

3. Customization 

Ben: We did, yeah. 

Mike: Yeah. tell us a little bit about that process and how the DEN plans enabled you to start with a vision and then, you know, make it your own.

Ben: So I think the, the cool thing for us about the DEN plans were that, you know, neither one of us have a design or architecture background in any way. But I think it was so easy for us to understand. We kind of knew what we wanted. We had a vision, and I think using the DEN plans as like a really strong foundation, it would've been great to do it as is.

We just wanted to make a few customizations that would work for us. So the kind of biggest one that we did is that because we're in. British Columbia where we're in the middle of essentially a coastal rainforest. It pours rain here all the time. So one of the things that we wanted to do was actually create a covered deck, an entryway for people to come into the house.

So they'd have a place to drop their bags. They'd have a place to kind of like sit outside in the rain if it was raining. And for the fireplace we have a spot that we can actually stack and dry firewood, which is quite cool as well. All without kind of need to leave the front deck, 'cause you know, there are bears around here as well, which is an important context. 

We also extended out the deck, we did like a wraparound deck, on three sides of the deck, which is awesome. Because of the covered deck, we ended up flipping the orientation of like the living room versus the dining room.

Just so that we could kind of maximize the view on our side and the flow through the kitchen. So. It was really easy to do, uh, with the plans and we worked with just like a local draftsman, um, to get that done and modified. 

Mike: Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. 

Ben: Yeah, yeah. 

Mike: Yeah. It's so funny. We're an American company, right?

And like we do get some amount of interest from Canadians in various markets and like your market, and then I would say like, I would say the Quebecois market is like big for us, you know? 

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. 

Mike: Um, and then like up in Nova Scotia also is like, every place where like people would expect to see like really dope, you know, Canadian architecture.

Like that's where we have like, you know, um, interested parties in. Believe it or not, you guys are like the first Canadian project that I've interviewed, right? Yes. Yes. This is momentous for sure. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Katey: Sure. 

Mike: Tell us, was there anything that you guys needed to do to adapt the designs? Besides the, customizations, like, was there any sort of additional requirements that you guys needed to do to localize the designs for Canadian requirements? 

4. Adapting to Local Requirements

Ben: Oh. So I think, I think the main one for us is that we, um, so, you know, I think the plans were kind of specked to do a hardwood floor build. What we wanted to do here, which is a little bit different... we also are in BC, which has some of the strictest seismic codes in the world for building, because if we're earthquakes and we're on the ring of fire, right?

Mike: Right. 

Ben: We combined that with a poured foundation with radiated floor heating, um, so that we could actually, you know, it gets cold here. It was snowing out here last night. Everything is covered in frost outside. So we actually did the radiated floor heating just as like a nice little perk for people when they come in, they take off their shoes, the floors are warm, and the whole house is heated by the floor.

It's a really nice kind of touch. It's something that all of our guests really love. Um, the other thing that's kind of funny and interesting as well is that like Canada has the world's strictest fireplace codes. We wanted a very specific stove from, from Copenhagen, from a brand called Morsø, and we ended up having to get a different one than we wanted because you can't have one with a glass on the sides in Canada because it's very strict. 

Mike: And which, which brand did you end up going with? 

Ben: It's same brand, Morsø, but it's 

Mike: I have a Morsø Stove too. 

Ben: Yeah. But they have so many awesome ones that are like glass on all sides, you know? 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

Ben: Super cool. And we couldn't and we couldn't get that one. 

Certain models are restricted. It has to be like really contained. 

Mike: We're here on the DEN channel.

We should talk about stove tech, right? Did you get the Morsø 6148, is that the one- 

Ben: 6143. 

Mike: Oh, cool. 

Ben: With the log store underneath. 

Mike: Oh, classy. 

Ben: Which is great. Which is really handy, honestly. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have the same stove, but instead of like the firewood, like storage beneath, I just have like the pedestal...

This is a tangent, but like do you chop your own wood? Like what do you do? 

5. Firewood & Stoves

Ben: We have to, we have to. So it's, I mean, as part of the build, we obviously had to fell a few trees in the area.

Like this property is totally surrounded by trees and we were very mindful of like, we wanna leave the big ones, the big beautiful boys. 

Katey: Yeah. 

Ben: Keep 'em standing up. We had to cut down a few. We still have a bunch outside that we have to split down and take down. But we do end up buying firewood and we have to get like, pretty short firewood because the Morsøs are pretty tight.

Mike: Do you drive them crazy? 'Cause you're like, 'well we need like eight inch logs'. 

Ben: Our local hardware store, funnily enough, sells like, they're basically bundles of 2x4s, that are cut and they're almost a perfect length. $7 for a bundle of like 20.

Katey: It's not sustainable. Not- 

Ben: The math is not math-in', but, it's so handy. They literally fit exactly into the, into the- 

Mike: Right, right, right. Because yeah, we ordered like 3 cords of wood and I like drove, I drove the person crazy because they were like, 'you want them smaller than 12 inches?'

I was like, 'yeah, dog'. And he is like 'I can't guarantee that'. So there's like some big pieces, some pieces. 

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. We gotta cut them down with the chainsaw, then we gotta split the little short. 

Mike: I do the same shit. Okay. Okay. Back, back on track.

6. Decision to Build

Mike: Why did you guys decide to build something instead of just buying something on the market? 

Ben: It's a good question. 

Katey: Yeah. On our first date, we were going on a big, it was like, I think it was early on in the date we were talking about how we had this, like we kind of shared love for modern, simple, clean lines. Scandinavian inspired homes. 

And then Ben was like, 'there's actually a house I would love', like, he's like, 'it's my dream house'.

And he is like, 'it's black, it's modern, it's in Kitsilano. Like I don't know exactly where it is, but I've walked by it' and I was like, 'I think I know what you're talking about'. And a couple drinks, maybe a bottle of wine later, the hours had passed, we were like, 'let's go find this house'. So we ended up going for like a huge neighborhood walk and sure enough at like, maybe at midnight, yeah, we walked by the house and we're like, 'that's it'.

We both knew. And so from there. I feel like that was always the inspiration to be like, we wanna build something very similar where it's modern, it's sleek, it's clean lines, it's Scandinavian vibes. Like we were, we both felt very inspired from there. 

Ben: Yeah. At the earlier times we did make offers on a few houses.

Yeah. I described like the house buying process as like, you're looking for jeans and you're like, 'wow, it's a perfect pair of jeans'. And you turn it around, there's like a bedazzled eagle on one cheek and you're kind of like, 'oh man, they've ruined it'. You know, like I think there's a certain point where so much of it is good, and then there's just like one or two choices that they made that are like kind of fundamental to the house.

Katey: Yeah. 

Ben: That are just not what you want. Um, yeah. And then in places where you'd end up, you'd end up, you know, buying a house and maybe it'd be cheaper and you'd end up having to do so much work that it ends up being closer to just building anyways. So.. 

Katey: Never quite right. 

Ben: Never quite right. The only thing I would say too is that this area has kind of nothing like a DEN house in the area.

Katey: Yeah. 

Ben: Especially not anything like this on the Airbnb or the short term rental market. So there's an awesome opportunity to just like, quite really stand out from the pack and create something unique. 

Mike: I think in like a lot of these established markets, there's even like log homes, like- 

Ben: Yeah, totally.

Mike: Big, like boulder stone fireplaces. 

Ben: Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. 

Totally. Very like classic. There's also like a real west coast, there's very much like a west coast cabin cottage, you know, uh, aesthetic, which is very like ski lodge inspired that. You see a lot of those here.

So it was cool to kind stand out from the pack. 

Katey: Mm-hmm. 

Ben: Yeah. 

Mike: Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. One more DEN design question. Are there any other architects or designers that you really like and you draw inspiration from?

7. Inspiration from Other Designers

Ben: Ooh, that's a great question. There's this amazing firm in Vancouver called Studio Campos that's like quite a high end.... I don't know if you know them. They're, they're rad. They do such beautiful stuff. Kind of feels very similar to DEN, um, kind of like an interesting scale. But they, I think what they, what they do a cool job of, and I think one thing that was always like important to us, and one of the things we really loved about DEN is, having the place that like blends into nature, into the surroundings really well.

You know, which is like the, one of the things we love about the house the most is that you can't see it from the road even when the lights are on, it just feels like it's so much part of the environment. And these guys, I think we were really mindful of like even the materials we use, which is all wood, that's from the local area. Even the way that like the, the finishes of the house, the finishes of our hot tub and the way that the hot tub is cut into the rock, um, outside of the property. Like we really wanted the house to blend into nature. And I think those guys, Studio Campos do a good job of that too, as well as DEN.

Mike: That's cool. That's cool. Maybe tell us also a little bit about how you guys found your builder and how your set of plans helped to establish a good relationship with them in terms of your collaboration. And maybe even tell us a little bit about how you went about pricing the project.

8. Finding a Builder

Ben: I mean, so we got a referral to these builders from our - I had a really good relationship with our real estate agent. She was awesome. Like a true local and we kind of had told her what we were doing and she had been with us in this journey of like making offers even on a few houses, and she was always kind of like 'I think you wanna build, I think you just wanna build'. Yeah. So we eventually just switched to focusing on land. Yeah. And then she made the recommendations for our builders and we're like the, you know, there's one [group of] guys you gotta talk to? And it's these guys. 

They're an awesome local company. They're from the central coast, born and raised here. 

Katey: Mm-hmm. 

Ben: And kind of really experienced in milling and finishing of timber as well, which is really cool. 'Cause we have some really nice, interesting touches of like local wood that's been adapted to things like our bathroom vanities and our floating shelves, as well as like just some of the detail work around the ceiling and stuff.

Katey: Mm-hmm. 

Ben: They were great. I think, you know, important context is that neither one of us had any build experience, like negative, any build experience. So we also just wanted a company that we felt like supported by and could trust a little bit. 

Katey: Yeah. 

Ben: On like telling us what's what. And I think with some of the bigger, kind of like more formal traditional build companies that are out here, maybe, like we wouldn't have gotten that kind of white glove service a little bit, um, in terms of advice, in terms of something that you could just pick up the phone and call all the time.

So it was a relatively small crew, small company. But yeah, really helpful. 

Katey: One thing that I think was almost just like the confirmation that they were right for us was before we closed on the property, we called them and they came up and did a walkthrough of the land and, we were basically just like, wanted to meet them and we're like, 'this is what our vision is'.

The owner walked the land with us and he is like, 'this is what I would like consider'. He is like, 'if you build here, like you'd have to blast that much rock. It'll cost X amount'. So. We just felt like we were considered from the jump, like got to be able to like meet them, consider what we should, you know, take in to factor. 

Ben: Yeah. 

Katey: So from there we're like, 'we gotta work with them'. Yeah. It was just like so great from the jump. 

Ben: You just hear horror stories of like, people who buy, you know, buy a piece of land and they don't really do the proper research of how to build on that land and then they can't.

So it was great. I think the other thing that's important context on that, which we forgot too, is that... technically this lot that we were on is under some building code restrictions of what you have to do. So it was really awesome to be able to work with them who know and understand that really well and then could modify the plans based on that.

'Cause there is a minimum square footage that we had to bump up the plan a little bit to, to fit that. Um, so even things like that was, was really great with these builders. Yeah. 

Mike: Nice, nice. When you did that walk of the parcel, at that point had you shared like the provisional plans with the builder?

Ben: Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. They were fired up by it. They were super excited. I mean, I think it was like... this has become a bit of a show piece for them, I'd say in their book. Their style is quite a little bit different. They're a little bit more like organic, a lot of their style is like blended into the nature and the natural environments.

Even the owners' house, it's kinda like a hobbit hole. It's like built into the hill. It's quite cool. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Ben: You know, again, they were really, really. gave us a lot of good advice about like, 'I'd do this, I'd do that. You know, like let's change this based on where we are', et cetera.

So...

Katey: Even just, yeah, they helped us place it being like, 'if it's this build, you should consider like this orientation because of the way that the sun rises and sets' exactly like they were so helpful and they're like, 'we probably wanna avoid this section because there's so much rock'. Or, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben: It was just like, let's just go like, 'you might be able to keep that tree. 'cause that's like a showcase tree'. So, yeah. 

Even like the one thing that we always, like, one of our favorite features of the house that was their idea was like the, the driveway bends in when you come into the property.

Ben: So you can never see the house from the road. and then what that creates is this kind of like amazing, like wow moment when you turn the corner, especially for like an Airbnb. You know, you want that. 'Like, oh my God, this is the place we're staying at'. 

Katey: Mm-hmm. 

Ben: And every time we've been up here, I don't know what, 5,000 million times.

And every time we still have that bit of like, 'oh, damn, this is wrong'. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the design world. They call that the welcome sequence. 

Ben: The welcome sequence. That's it. They nailed it. They nailed it. 

Mike: That's awesome. That's awesome.

Question for Katey, right? What is your favorite part of the house? 

Katey: I mean, there's a few. I think it's the overall feeling that I get when I like drive up. You see it? 

Ben: That's a soft answer.

It's a soft answer. 

Katey: Soft, okay. Gosh. 

Ben: Pick something. Pick a lane. 

Katey: Pick a lane. I feel like there's a feeling. No, I just instantly feel calm. 

Mike: That's cool. It could be. It could be a holistic, holistic feeling. There's no wrong answer to it. 

Katey: I would say it's a feeling that I like. Yeah, yeah. I would say the feeling.

I mean, I love the kitchen. It's truly like we have no upper shelves. Like we have like an island. It's just well equipped. It's like, we call it the chef's kitchen. 

Ben: Yeah. 

Katey: We love to cook. So we like really made sure that we, you know, equipped it with everything that we need.

Um, but the kitchen is just beautiful. There's a window above the sink, so when you're washing dishes and just like taking care of the space, it's... you can see like a little birch tree, like haven, which is awesome. Um, but honestly, I think probably I'm gonna just, this is fine. My final answer: the windows. I think I love like how open and vast it is.

No matter where you are in the house, you can see just the beautiful landscape. Um, and I think just we knew we wanted to do, uh, floor to ceiling windows. 

Ben: The number of birds and deer and bears we've seen was crazy. 

Katey: You get to like watch wildlife from the couch, which was really cool.

Mike: A little bit different than building a DEN in New Jersey. 

Katey: Very true. 

Mike: Yeah. That's awesome. Let's do like a high point, low point, right? You know, what was the most fun you had on the project, when everything was like going well and you're like, 'holy smokes, this is amazing. You know, I, I love that we're doing this. I, I love you. I love shmoopy shmoopy. This is so good'. Like, you know, and then what was like the, 'oh man, like, , the 'Houston, we have a problem moment'. 

9. Highs and Lows of the Project

Ben: Yeah, totally. I would say the high point for me throughout the process of the project was just like, you know, I feel like the building process is so, it's like slow and then it's insanely fast.

So it's like the foundation and stuff took forever. The digging of the hole, if you come up and you'd be like, 'oh yeah, now there's this little thing, now's this little thing'. What was really the high point I think for me was like coming back when the walls were up and then you come back next and the dry wall is up and then you come back next and the windows are in.

Like, it just started to feel like, 'oh my God, that's, this is really getting real'. That part of the process was amazing and I think super high. I think the low point was just like, to be honest, was the price of things sometimes. And when you get the, the big biweekly construction bill and you'd be like, 'okay, gotta pay this now, I gotta figure out where this comes from'. You know? Building up here, because we are so remote, is expensive. Maybe relative to a city or relative to another municipality. But you know, even like we have to drive in our construction workers every single day. We had to, everything has to be trucked in to get everything.

It was a pretty expensive process and that obviously has created its own stresses. I think the finished product is definitely worth it. But while you going through that, you know, you're kind of reconciling like. 'Wow, this is so amazing and beautiful'. And then you're like, and here's the bill for it.

You're like, 'okay, now we gotta figure that out'. 

Mike: You know, everything that you just said has been said to me several times over, actually. People are like, they love to see the process revealed, right? And like the raising of a house. And every single [time], I'm like, 'you know, what could have been better?'

People are like 'the cost', like every single time, always. 

Ben: Yeah, of course. Yeah. 

Katey: You think it's gonna be this thing, but then it's always gonna cost a bit more. Every decision, yeah, every decision costs. 

Ben: And we were also, again, like we don't have any experience in that field.

So there was kind of like just a world where -

Katey: Lots of learnings we- 

Ben: lots of learnings. Yeah, totally. Yeah. 

Katey: It's like we definitely said 'yes' too many times. 'So like if you do this decision it'll, you know, you won't have to redo it for five years'. And we said yes to that too many times. 

Right. Did you guys do a fixed price project or cost plus project? 

Ben: Cost plus. 

Mike: Okay. That makes sense. 

Katey: I was gonna say one last thing. I think it's just so, it was so cool to see the strength of our partnership. 

Ben: Yeah.

Katey: When we were going through, especially when we were trying to get it ready for our photographer to come and take shots of the house. I've never been so tired and stressed in my life, but it was like, the house is done. We were like kicking the, like contractors outta the house, being like, 'we gotta go. Like, we gotta start cleaning!'

Yeah. Um, but in that moment I was like, 'wow, like, you know, two years later here we are, like rushing people outta the house so that we can get it ready for. Staging', was so cool, but it was just like a big, I feel like that might've been my like most proud, another excited moment. 

Ben: Another cool one that I'm just literally looking at it, so made me think of it, is that we, Katey, Katey had this really cool idea, which is like, this is this really, you know, kind of like quite popular artist in BC in the west coast who does these amazing kind of like landscape prints, whatever else.

And we actually had her come to the house, like did a piece inspired by the house and it's like, it's monstrous. 

Mike: Oh, wow. That's cool. 

Ben: Mean, they're like inspired by the place and, and the environment and the build stuff. 

Katey: Yeah, that it's been fun, like working with local-

Ben: -Creators.

Katey: Creators and contractors and artists, and pitching ideas and seeing how we can, yeah. 

Ben: Make things happen- 

Katey: Exchange new trades and you name it. 

Mike: That's awesome. You guys can maybe confirm this for me. Um, I saw that you guys have a flawless 5.0 review record on [Airbnb].

Ben: We're flawless, super hosts. 

Mike: That is amazing. That is amazing. Congratulations. 

Ben: Thank you. 

Mike: We're like thinking about getting into the Airbnb game ourselves, but also recognize like how much operational effort it takes to achieve what you guys have. So yeah, maybe tell us a little bit about how that's going for you and like what guests are saying about the place.

Um, and yeah, if you wanna promote the project on Airbnb, please, please do. This is your, this is your chance to plug it! 

10. Airbnb Experience and Advice

Katey: We've been property managing it. To be honest, that's the way we wanted it. Like we knew that we wanted to be the ones having direct lines with our guests to be able to like, make sure that we're... we wanted to hear feedback, we wanted to be like, 'what can we do better for you? How can we elevate the space even further?' So, it's been full on for us. 'cause obviously we have full-time jobs and, added property manager to the resume this year, but wouldn't have had it any other way. I also gave myself a self proclaimed title of chief... experience officer, chief vibe officer. Um, so just really like leaning in.

But yeah, um, I would say, yeah, it's just been so rewarding and um, a lot of work. 

Ben: I think people are blown away by this space too, honestly, on Airbnb. Like that's the feedback we get all the time. Yeah, I think we, we obviously have really nice photos done. We had nice videos taken and then people get here and again, they have that welcome sequence and they're just like completely astounded by it.

What's pretty impressive that we've only been on Airbnb for less than 6 months and we've had like three repeat guests already. You know, people have come up like even to the point where we've had a cancellation last minute and like guests who come before would have booked it within 15 minutes of the cancellation.

Like people just love it. I think this, this place and this space represents like a dream for so many people of what they want to have for themselves. So pretty cool to be able to see people just falling in love with the space like we are. 

Mike: That's awesome.

If you had a friend who wanted to pursue a project like this with DEN, what advice would you give them? 

Ben: Oh, great question. I would say... I'd love to hear yours, but my two would be, one would be like, figure out your budget in more detail. I think I was a little bit loosey goosey. 

Katey: Mm-hmm.

Ben: At the front with budgeting and I wish I was a bit more, buttoned up was one. And then I think the second one is just like, know what's important to you and know what's not. There are certain things that we were like, we would not sacrifice and there's certain things that we were like, 'okay, you know what? We could maybe like... you know, go a little bit less high end with this finish because we wanna save something for over here'. 

I think just like that balance is really important. Um, and knowing what your priorities are and kind of knowing what you want to get out this space is really good. I think the last piece of advice, which was a really good one that someone gave to me was, don't scrimp out on the things that people touch, the tactile feel of a space.

Katey: Mm-hmm. 

Ben: You know, like, we have really beautiful doorknobs, we have amazing poles in the kitchen. And I think that adds to the overall feel of this space and, the feeling that you get when you're here. 

Katey: Yeah. I'd say one last one that I would add is just, and we start to see it too, is like some people, uh, are inspired by our process.

Yeah. They'll reach out and they'll start to ask questions, and I think that's just maybe... not that we didn't do this, but I think probably like we followed DEN before we started this journey, but I think even just reaching out to people that have been through the process to ask them questions and I feel like you don't know what to ask before you're in it. But I think just like all along the way, like not being scared to ask for help or ask questions and like I know that there's been a couple people in my kind of circle community that I've reached out to to be like, 'how did you decide on this? Or like, do you have any recommendations for this?'

But I think, you know, DEN, you do such a great job at like supporting fellow DEN builders, through the process. And I know that there's so much kind of support there. Um, but I think leaning in and not being scared to ask for help and just asking questions as they come up, is like my biggest piece of advice.

Um, 'cause there's so much to learn. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. That's the - what a flex. That's awesome. 

I think that's it. I don't know if you guys have anything else that you want to add, but all of these, like every single time I interview our customers, it's always like so, uh, rewarding for me, you know?

And like, everyone speaks so positively about the process, you know, despite the cost and like despite, you know, the occasional hiccup with like a builder and it's like amazing. Yeah. It's just amazing to be part of, uh, this company and part of your journey as well.

On behalf of the whole team, you know, thanks for choosing us and, you know, yeah. Uh, you know, thanks for spending some time with us today. 

Ben: For sure. No, thank you. And I'd say like, the number of people who've asked about DEN and just been so impressed by the design and the, the like consideration of every piece of this place has been pretty impressive. So great job. We would 100% do it all the same way again. Yeah, we'd do another one and we would do another one. We would, we would easily, you know, we, this piece of land is zoned for two dwellings and we're already talking about like, how do we get the next one on the lot.

Katey: The goal is that we're North Coast House, so we're like, the goal is we just, we need a little bit more access to capital so we can build South Coast House, East Coast, Southwest Coast House. 

Mike: Ah, that's cool. 

Ben: We fly end to end of Canada.

Katey: Trying to manage a place. 

We can take, we could take DEN Global. We'll, we could do it. 

Mike: That's awesome.