Story Road Cabin: Vincent & Alexis's experience building the Barnhouse Plus

 

Hello friends! This week, I sat down to catch up with Alexis and Vincent, who took the general contracting of their DEN build into their own hands. Curious about the advantages and challenges of building a DEN with little to no assistance from a GC? Hear about it here. Also, Vincent explains how his corporate background informed the organizational side of their build, as well as how they saved on costs. You can find the Story Road House Airbnb here, and it's IG here. 

 

1. Introduction & Background

Mike: Let's first start with just some background.

If you guys can tell us who you are, and which DEN design you guys ultimately ended up building and where you built it.

Alexis: Yeah, I'm Alexis and this is Vincent.

I'm a writer and Vincent is like, what, an entrepreneur kind of?

The story started because we were traveling in the Finger Lakes and we stayed at a tiny house and on the way, Vincent was just looking at different pieces of land that were available and we happened to stop at this one place in Dansville, New York, which is like a really rural part.

2. Finding & Purchasing the Land

Alexis: And we found this piece of land and it was like 1. 8 acres and a forest and a pond. And we walked out on it, like walked to the pond and saw the trees. And we were both like, 'this is so beautiful, like we, we want this, like we want to live here', because we're from Buffalo, New York, and it's like this rusted industrial city, that's so cool with all these awesome breweries and we love it here. But we didn't have like the forest in our life, like a forest feeling. So then we, you looked at the land and we were like, it was like $25,000. 

Vincent: Yeah. The one part of it is it was really inexpensive, but also it was a forest. So there was no development at all.

So we had to start by just putting a driveway, uh, just to, to be able to get in.

3. Challenges with Land Development

Vincent: But the land itself was really inexpensive. I think it was $18,000 that we paid for, which looking back was, uh, less expensive than the well we had to put on it. So, uh, so we were very innocent. We're like, 'at this price, like, uh, what could go wrong?'

And, uh, so we decided to buy the land and then figure out what we're going to do with it. 

Alexis: Yeah. Yeah. And we were really like. Like in the description, it said that there was a well in the lands. We're like, 'oh, that's perfect, like, this is going to be so easy to put in all the utilities'. And it wasn't until like way later when we were digging the well and like the first well didn't work. So we had to dig, this, how many feet down? 

Vincent: 400ft. 

4. Discovering DEN & Choosing a Design

Alexis: 400ft down to find this well. Anyway, we, we found it and it started us on a journey and we happened to come across the DEN website because of someone we connected with in Dansville, who said like, 'oh, there's this website and they have all these cabins and houses and they're kind of like Scandinavian looking'.

And she's like, 'and I want to do a sauna', she had like a farm and we looked at DEN and we were like, 'this is beautiful. Like this is so perfect'. Like we were, yeah-

Vincent: Exactly the type of design that, we love. Me being from France. It's like more, maybe more European. And so we started looking at all the different designs and, uh, then decided to go with the Barnhouse Plus.

Alexis: We were pretty conflicted for a while. We didn't know exactly which one. Yeah. 

Vincent: Initially we liked the, uh, Alpine. 

Alexis: Yeah. 

Vincent: Uh, but then we thought it would be good to have everything on one floor, being in a forest, we felt that we didn't really have to go up, because the forest was like... basically the, the decor on, you don't really need to be up in, uh, in it.

Also for practical reason, we wanted to build something that we can, uh, well, it's less intimidating to go to 15ft than 30ft on the ladder. And, uh, it, it, I don't know, it, it felt, uh, better because we decided to build some of it ourself. 

5. Vincent’s Career Pivot & Transferable Skills

Mike: And, before we started the interview, Alexis, you were saying that Vincent worked in corporate.

And then, you know, this project also represents like a bit of a career pivot, huh? Tell us a little bit about why you decided to do that, and then how some of those skills that you brought from working in, a larger corporation were useful, uh, in organizing this project, from start to finish.

Vincent: Yeah. So I'm an engineer and I've been working in the food industry for a while, and then I quickly moved to purchasing. Uh, so I was a buyer and then a purchasing manager. Uh, so I was meeting with suppliers, negotiating, which was really helpful during the build, to shop around doing bids.

That's something I was really familiar to and then organization skill and, Excel spreadsheets and all that, uh, was really helpful during the build.

But then yeah, i've been doing that for 10 years and during the pandemic we started being on zoom a lot and less traveling and less in person things, and we started developing our real estate business in Buffalo by buying properties and renting them, so the construction skills like also developed during that time.

At some point, yeah, I, I decided to do real estate full time and, uh, first just managing our rentals. And then, uh, I guess it was also very trendy in the pandemic to, to, to move from the city to the country, and start buying land and developing it. So, yeah, it was all at that time in 2021.

And I think the rental experience, uh, for construction and the corporate experience with budgeting money, negotiation, all that, was really helpful in the past three years. 

6. Balancing Hands-On Work & Project Management

Alexis: Yeah. And just to say like, because I know maybe someone would be watching this who might be, trying to buy a DEN plan and like thinking about what skills you need, but Vincent's like... the fact that he can make spreadsheets for everything that we were buying and like these elaborate spreadsheets and then go to the property and do like manual labor... That was like a really good, um, like mix of skill sets for this project. Like it just, it just worked out really well because it was like budget mixed with like, buying from contractors and then like going to the property and trying to put as much sweat equity as we could. And I would help out as much as I could, but another thing throughout this project is that we got pregnant with our daughter. So I was like, you know, in like Carhartt's trying to help Vincent being pregnant.

And then we had our daughter and we lived in a trailer on the land. And I mean, it's... a lot has changed since we first bought the plans. 

Vincent: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good point. It was a mix of two jobs like the on site job and then the office work that looked more like what I had in my corporate world where I was doing two, three days with my cart, uh, working at the property and, and then, coming back and doing the bids and making phone calls and, uh, using the- actually the spreadsheet that DEN provides is pretty detailed...

And I just took that Uh, started customizing it with the information I got on playing with the cost of everything and keeping your budget during the build... So that, that spreadsheet now looks very different than at the beginning, but it was really helpful to have that. 

Mike: Awesome. Yeah. And then, and then, yeah, just curious to hear a little bit about how having a set of DEN plans and also maybe that materials list helped you build a good relationship with your general contractor and also helped you navigate some of the issues or challenges that you might have had with like explaining what the project was with the municipality.

7. Becoming a General Contractor & Learning Construction

Vincent: Yeah, so that part was a little bit of a challenge because it's not something we've done before. So, first thing we did is we, we bought the plans and then I just like spent a few days just trying to understand every single piece of the plans because we decided that I would be the general contractor.

So I was familiar with renovation, but everything from like the foundation, the framing, the roofing, all that was new to me. The way we did it was really to just drill down, ask on youtube, on google every question I had to make sure I understood every single piece on the plans and then acting as general contractor was also a... learning curve. Like when you have questions for your Contractor about something that you've never done before. So, it was not always easy, but yeah It really taught us a lot, being the general contractor, but I would say it's not for everyone.

Mike: Right. Right. And, and would you say though, that the plans themselves were helpful in communicating, you know, the vision of the project to trades and vendors? Like, presumably, like you, did you guys, did you put the roofing on or did you hire a roofing subcontractor? 

8. Working with the Amish & Contractors

Alexis: We hired actually because we have the project in Amish country. We just started like chatting with people and we did have those plans, like we carried those plans around everywhere we went, we're like, 'this is what we're trying to do', and then we started to feel like the Amish do really good work.

So we... So like literally people would be like 'oh, you have to go down this road and go talk to Joe. And like, you can explain it to him'. So- 

Vincent: Yeah 

Alexis: -it was like this... culture gap between the Amish way of life, and then our way of life, with like a very progressive, modern plan, like a Scandinavian cabin.

But it worked out so well, and they did the roof, the Amish did the roof and the skylights were- 

Vincent: We printed our set of plans. And because you cannot really talk on the phone, we just... finding the, the contractors showing them, and I mean the plans are, uh, really detailed. And also the information that are outside of the plans, but on, in the package.

So yeah, it was so that was really helpful with the contractor to have all the level of details of the wall constructions and, uh, and all that.

9. Modifying the Plans & Adding a Basement

Vincent: We also modified the plan, to add a full basement. Uh, so.. that was something we work on with DEN, did a call, and got the plans modified.

To be able to customize it. It is, was also something very important for us. 

Alexis: Yeah. And that ended up being a really good decision for us based on, um, well, one, we, we did it mostly because of like insulation, right? Like keeping the floor warm to have an open space underneath. But now our next project is to renovate the basement into livable space for short term rentals.

Vincent: Yeah, that's something definitely that's interesting to think about because the footprint is not that big, it's like a thousand sq ft. The cost per sq ft is, I mean, for new construction is fairly high. So it's an investment we decided to make at the beginning and we're lucky we did. We insulated the slab and the walls in the basement.

So now we have a space that's pretty much as big as a house. Uh, that we can finish in a phase two for a much, much lower cost per square foot. And, uh, even though new construction is expensive, at the end, when you average out everything with a basement finish, it really helps, uh, in terms of return on investment, but also, uh, just lowering the cost per square foot when you take the whole house with a basement.

10. Short-Term Rental Plans & Airbnb Strategy

Mike: Right, right. And are you guys, uh, considering, you know, all of these, like, new school, uh, engagement tactics with short term rental Airbnb? Like, are you gonna have, like, a movie room, pool table, sauna, uh, golf course, like, a driving range? Like, what, what things do you add to your basement? 

Alexis: Yeah. We're appealed to things like that.

Like, I definitely think we should get a projector. We added a hot tub. 

Mike: Oh, nice. 

Alexis: Yeah, and we, yeah, we just put it on. We just went with a property management company like, um, for vacation rentals and the feeling when our guy Josh came into the house was like, such a great feeling because he was just like 'this could not be better for short term rental. This is like a couple's getaway. Like this is perfect'. The fact that our plan has two bathrooms... We live right near a wedding venue and we're hoping that wedding guests will come and like that maybe those bathrooms would be handy for them. But he recommended having a hot tub just as like for the winter, to be in the house for things to do.

We're definitely thinking of maybe adding a sauna. 

Vincent: Yeah. 

Alexis: Um, we like whole like, like 'hygge', like Scandinavian, like coziness of it. 

Vincent: Yeah, we don't want it to be too stuffy. 

Alexis: We don't want it to be an amusement park, but yeah. 

Vincent: The basement is nice because we have the floor that's beautiful with cathedral ceilings and the stove and, uh, and this beautiful room and wood.

And the basement is more like we're probably gonna, uh, be an entertainment room and adding some beds and the bathroom. Uh, but, uh, it just adds a lot of space.

And just going back to the management company that we hired, it's Vibe Vacation Rental in the Finger Lakes. And, uh, the owner, when he saw the house said, 'you're doing it exactly the way you should for Airbnb because uh... experiences are what guests look for' and the design of the DEN house is like this Scandinavian feel in the woods. Uh, I mean, it's it's just beautiful and what people will, uh, will look at.

So we had a really great, feedback from him and then took some advice on some things like the hot tub and, uh, and, uh, yeah, we'll see how it goes, but we, we started receiving quite a few reservations, so we're optimistic.

Mike: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us, so tell us a little bit about that, right? Like, so when did you launch the property on Airbnb and how's that going so far? 

Alexis: We just did it like about a month ago. Yeah. Yeah. 

11. Hiring a Property Management Company

Vincent: And that was a concern for us was to find the right people to manage it because it's... there is not a lot of Airbnb in our area and a lot of it is people putting their house, but it's just the house that's an Airbnb. It's not really an experience or like weekend get away.

So we, uh, we are lucky to find that company that's in the Finger Lakes that has people for maintenance, for cleaning, for... all that very close to us. And that was a huge relief to find them because, It's new for us, uh, and we are almost two hours away. So managing it directly was something we didn't really want to do.

And yeah, they have a lot of, uh, tools. So it's listed on Airbnb, VRBO, we get a report from, from them. Uh, they do a lot of data, like to figure out like how to, uh, how to rent it, how much the seasonality, all these things.

That has been super helpful to us. Uh, 

Alexis: and, and we have, yeah, we have five... yeah, we have five listed, like five. Um. 

Vincent: Five reservations without any reviews so far, but we're starting March 1st on all the weekends in March, which is a slow season already booked. 

Mike: Oh, amazing. Congratulations. Yeah, so- 

Vincent: It's, uh, it's really nice.

Each time we get an email for a new reservation, we're like, 'yes, it's working'. Yeah. But yeah, we'll have to see in a few months, but yeah, it seems that it's going to be a good, uh, not only a great place for us to go, but also a great investment. 

Alexis: Yeah. 

Just to add to that too, because like the forest and, the feeling of being in nature was really important to us. And the DEN plan that we picked, the Barnhouse Plus has like a whole wall of windows, so we're really excited to invite like other people in to experience what we experience. Like I have a bird feeder out there and we left like bird seed for them. And, um, you know, you can walk to the pond in the morning... When you sit in our living room, you can see the sunrise to your left, and when you sit in the evening, you can see the sunrise to, to your right, or set, to your right.

Yeah. Um, so I feel like it's like, I mean, of course, there's like many times when this project felt very heavy and like there was a lot of stress, but there's also so many moments where we just like so enjoyed it.

And we're so I'm really excited to see what other people think of it. And if they feel the same way. 

Vincent: Yeah, when we go there, we're really amazed like you sit in the living room and it's warm and cozy, but you have a wall of glass and you see the forest and the snow like in front of you. 

Alexis: Yeah. 

Vincent: And then we also have the memory of putting these windows in that are like 300 pounds each and almost- 

Alexis: Oh my gosh, yeah, that was so hard.

Our neighbor just like randomly came to help us when we were about to fall over from lifting it up. 

Vincent: So yeah, it's, it's, it's not, uh, it's not always an easy process, but when we look at the result, it's really beautiful. 

Alexis: But the journey was also really fun. Like every stage we were like, 'this is so cool that we're doing this'.

Like, yeah, I mean, you seemed a little burnt out by the corporate world, and this was like, so -you must have felt that way too, when you started DEN, just like, 'this is what I get to do? This is so interesting'. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, like, and I think we're now like pretty deep into like this customer interview series, and...

Yeah, I think like everyone talks about how rewarding the journey was like, and like seeing the project, you know, come into fruition from like stage to stage, like going, a hole in the ground to a foundation, to a home framed, to a home sheathed, to the roof on, like to like interior details, like coming into, uh, into focus, right?

And people really, really love that about the process. I would say that what, what we found is that people.... people hate, like, decision fatigue, right? That, like, comes with, you know, like, naturally comes with having to, like, execute a complex process...

But they're also like pretty psyched on the fact that, the DEN, like, plans and like the overall package, like, do a lot of the initial steering for folks. Um, like in terms of like, you know, design vision and like, even, you know, down to that materials list, you know, where there's like very, very granular details and people are like, super thankful about that.

Um, but I think also, you know, for people who haven't engaged with ground up construction before, you know, like, as you guys know, like, everything requires like a confirmation, right? Like, the exact type of, like, door and window trim has to be decided by you. The exact outlets need to be decided by you.

Exact placement of like light switches and things like that, I mean, we provide like an electrical plan, but like you need to like decide exactly where that light switch goes, right, on the wall. Yeah. So, um, and then I would say like, the only other thing that people get frustrated by, and maybe you guys can confirm this is like, the budgeting aspect and like the cost of construction, right?

12. Budgeting & Unexpected Costs

Mike: Maybe you guys can tell us a little bit about that, like how... how did you approach budgeting? You don't need to tell us like exactly, but were you on budget? Over budget? Did the commercials of the project align with your expectations?

Vincent: Yeah. Um, so initially when we bought the land, as I said, the land was pretty inexpensive. Uh, and then when we started looking at DEN, there was a cost calculator. Uh, and when you buy the package, you also get a much more detailed breakdown. Um, but obviously it depends where you build, and what other things you have to do.

And one big one is a land improvement. If you already have a cleared area with a septic and a well and all of that, the cost was going to be very different at the end. And that's something we, uh, we discovered during the build, but that was not the house itself. I think we were.... pretty good with budget with the house, with the estimate from DEN and I think prices are going to change, but if you take the estimate per sq ft that's provided... At the end, you're probably going to be in the ballpark for the house. And then you can decide, I mean, for us being our own general contractor, we were able to tell, 'okay, that's probably going to save us that much, um, and help us like, uh, with, with the total cost'.

So I think, the estimate that we got from DEN is actually pretty... pretty good. You don't really need to, uh, to drill down too much because at the end you're going to be around that. Uh, but what's important, I think, is to look at the other costs that are not the house costs and that can be pretty expensive.

I mean, when you put a septic, a driveway, electric, uh, the well, 

Alexis: The well was so much more expensive than we thought 

Vincent: So yeah, my advice would be, to really look at these costs, uh, in addition to the cost of the house, but, I felt pretty good about the estimate we got. After it's more like if you want to shop around, you can like decide to do that and know that you'll save that much, but at least you get your original number and then you work on it.

And if you have time to make it better, or if you want to do the work yourself, uh, you, you're going to save. I mean, I think we saved quite a bit doing some of the work ourselves and being our own general contractor. 

Alexis: And also like the Amish... like workers were less expensive and I felt like you used it as like a challenge.

Like we were on Facebook marketplace all the time. We now have connections with this like hardware store to get like cheaper wood. Like we were always driving around like trying to find different, cheaper things. 

13. Cost-Saving Measures & DIY Work

Vincent: Yeah, it's, it's kind of interesting. You have your spreadsheet which... to me was my, uh, basically worst case scenario, uh, higher cost.

And then, instead of, uh, buying the supplies that costs, $3,000, if you find one for $500 on Facebook marketplace and the challenge and you beat your spreadsheet and you're happy and, and you're, and I mean, if you do that on a lot of fight and you can definitely be lower, but it really depends how much involvement you want to put in.

Alexis: But I think like if someone is watching this and is just starting, if you can find land with utilities already on it, I feel like if we were to do another project, that would be huge for us. Yeah. Cause that just really shocked us. 

Mike: Yeah. How much did the well end up costing at 400 ft for you guys?

Vincent: Yeah. So I was saying the land was $18,000. The well ended up being $20,000, so that gives you an idea. We bought the land, like, pretty much carefree. I was like, 'whatever, worst case we'd go camping there'. And then initially we thought 'oh, we'd put a yurt on it'. And then you start spending on all this infrastructure and it doesn't make sense at all to put a yurt for $20,000 if you spend 50 plus on infrastructure. 

Mike: Yeah. Right. Right. 

14. Cost Per Square Foot & Final Budget

Mike: So you guys clearly have a great sense of the cost and the numbers, right? If you feel comfortable, like, uh, from the foundation up, like just the structure itself, like, what was your cost per square foot to build this building?

Vincent: Uh, so if we remove the cost of the infrastructure, and the furnishing and all that, I'm guessing we were around $300,000. So it's about a thousand sq ft. So, uh, that's, that's $300. 

Alexis: $300. 

Mike: yeah. 

Vincent: I think we put roughly a $100,000 off sweat equity in it between being our own general contractor and the work we did ourselves.

Mike: Right. Right. 

Vincent: Uh, so that would take you probably at closer to $400. 

Alexis: That's a basement. Yeah, recouping- 

Vincent: we had a full, full basement that was more expensive and we put a lot of insulation, uh, because we wanted to be as, uh, as, uh, energy efficient as, as we could.

Uh, so there are things we spend more on things we spend less on, but at the end, yeah, I think the estimate was around that $300 to $400 per sq ft.

So we were right there.

Mike: That's cool. Yeah, that that makes a ton of sense. I mean, like in the Hudson Valley, we just built a spec home and the cost of construction for us at retail from the foundation up was like roughly $500 a sq ft.

 Vincent: Yeah. 

Alexis: Okay. Yeah. 

Mike: I was like using a traditional GC where like they managed the entire project.

Alexis: Oh, nice. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah. So I think the fact that you guys beat, you know, average... like a New York cost per sq ft, um, of like around the $400 to $500 range. And you guys managed to suppress that, um, to get to $300 a square foot is really impressive. Really cool.

Yeah. 

15. Siding & Unique Material Choices

Vincent: Yeah. That, that was important to us. There were things we didn't really want to compromise on, uh, but also shopping around like... really help, like... the siding, we decided to buy the wood from the Amish and use this pine tar with linseed oil mix, to get. 

Mike: My, my favorite, uh, like approach to siding, right?

You know, there's so many different siding products out there. And also people really love, uh, shou sugi ban, like the siding. But like, once people start getting back the costs per linear ft for things like shou sugi ban, they're just like, 'Whoa!'

Vincent: It's very expensive. The hard work, you know, very expensive. Yeah. We look at a lot of options.

And then at the end, we spent $2,000 on wood and $500 on, uh, on pine tar, did the work ourselves. It smelled like firewood in the house and it looks like the look is still there.

Alexis: And we got to meet Danny Hershberger, like who did the wood. And then my dad came up and my mom came up and my mom watched our daughter and Vincent, me and my dad all like stained it one day.

So, and then your friend helped a lot. Like we, a lot of people are more interested in doing like manual labor than you think. Like it was not that hard. Like my dad loved it. Clément loved it. Yeah. 

Vincent: That's one of the decisions we made that we were the most proud of because we found a solution that really looks beautiful.

It's a product that's natural. It doesn't... like it's a... pine tar's what the Viking were using to waterproof their boat. Uh, and so it's very durable, and we got the wood from down the road. And probably at the end, it was a third of the cost of the, Hardy board or, uh, LP Siding which are great products, but much more expensive.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah, 

Alexis: And we call our property story road And I feel like all of these things that we did just created little stories for us that like, if anyone were interested, Who stayed at our house like we would love to tell them like 'oh, that, you know...'

Vincent: Yeah, there's a story, and we're actually on story road

Mike: So two, maybe two more questions, right? Um, as we come up to the top of the hour here. Are there any other short term rental projects out there that you guys draw inspiration from? 

16. Influences & Design Inspiration

Vincent: Well, the first one was when we found the land, we stayed in the- 

Alexis: -tiny house. We were really considering doing a tiny house, but the permits were too hard.

Vincent: Yeah, the permit. Then it really didn't make sense... And also like we built this house for the next hundred years. We hope to, you know, spend time with our daughter there. And, I think tiny houses are great, but the long-term value, it made sense for us to invest more in a real, like big house... I mean, not big, but a well built house, but we, we used the Airbnb a lot in the past.

Now we use home exchange (VRBO) a lot and we got a lot of inspiration from a stay in France. The design inside was this big windows and a vegetable... flat roof, grass on it and all this art and all that. And we, we build our own furniture that... looked like what was in this, uh, home exchange in France.

And we put art on the wall, Alexis doing the, the painting. So we try to make it not to corporate Airbnb, like standardized, like what's easy, but just like, uh, put our soul in it and hope that people will... appreciate that and see our custom furniture and custom art and all these things that uh... that were important to us 

Mike: Yeah, so I I take it like, you know on instagram even like you guys... are you following any other like big Airbnb projects in the United States?

Like-

Vincent: Yeah, uh, and actually the DEN community was really helpful on instagram like you see all these other DEN houses and... they are the same stage of construction or they went through the same question and they post it on Instagram And then you just send them a message, like 'how did you solve that?'

Alexis: Yeah 

Vincent: And then you get an answer 

Alexis: Yeah 

Vincent: And then you get people asking you the same thing and you help them and Uh, yeah, I think we followed a lot of DEN build on Instagram and that was Super helpful.  

Alexis: Just like, watching a ton of YouTube videos about like people who are building like, in different places and just getting ideas.

We followed that one, the yurt, um, or not... 'One Foot Off the Grid' for a long time. Like, It's amazing how interesting those videos are. Like you wouldn't think like, Oh, this video is about plumbing. And we're like, 'this is fascinating!' 

Vincent: yeah. We didn't stay in another DEN maybe, but yeah, they are definitely, I mean, most people who build their house, they have an Instagram account and, you can talk to people, help them, they help you.

Alexis: Yeah. 

Vincent: Uh, and then you have all the video from DEN on YouTube that we also watch that, gave us a lot of ideas. 

17. Advice for Future DEN Builders

Mike: Awesome. Awesome. Um Okay. Last question.

So if you had a friend who wanted to do, you know, a similar project, like what advice would you give them about getting started with DEN?

Vincent: I think spending time on what you do with the land, I mean, buying the land, like really studying that, and making sure that if you can have the utilities there, or just have a good sense of what it's going to take to transform it... 

With DEN, I don't know, like the modification was something, uh, that was important to us that went really well. You get to talk to someone about your project and then you get something that makes more sense to you and having the ability to do that and not just have a plan that you're stuck with, uh, that cannot be changed was... was, was important 

Alexis: DEN felt really like accessible to us, like, to ask questions.

It wasn't just like, 'here are the plans. Good luck'. But I would also say like, don't be too dreamy, because when you look at the DEN site, everything is so gorgeous and you're like, 'oh, this looks so easy'...

I would just say like, know the things you're good at, because like, we have very different skill sets and I think Vincent's very consistent and, he just like every day would have a small project that he would do and like, I would help out, in the ways that I could in like, the later stages, furnishing and those things, but I thought our skill sets worked pretty well for... like, I like the marketing part now, I like writing about it. I like talking to people. I like calling up a contractor and just chatting with them.

Like it doesn't. Like I'm more extroverted and you're more introverted. 

Vincent: Yeah. I mean, the process can be overwhelming building a house, but uh...

I don't know a lot of people that look back and are not glad they, they went through the process. And I feel like if, if this one is successful and we decide to do another one, I mean, what we learn, I feel like...

We... I mean, it's going to be significantly easier. Uh, and, uh.. 

Alexis: We would probably put less sweat equity into the next one, I would say, maybe. 

Vincent: Yeah. I mean, it's, it was interesting to learn it. Uh, but once you know it, it's also easier to manage contractor because you know what you're talking about.

Mike: Right, right, right. I, I actually, uh, personally felt the same after building my cabin. I was like, 'great, did all of that. And now I think I'm just going to farm it out, you know, for any subsequent projects'.

Um, but it's, yeah, it's great to be able to like speak a common language with subcontractors and with a general contractor.

And I think, yeah, that's like, a topic that we spend a lot of time on, talking with our customers, and, you know, people that haven't gone through this experience, um, that you guys have just finished. You know, really, really rely on DEN plans and the materials list as a way to drive, accuracy in those conversations, you know, not coming from a construction background.

Um, but yeah, that's, that's also not surprising.

I think that's it. Do you guys have any other anything to say before I, hit stop record? 

Vincent: Going back on what you get from DEN, you get a full package and I think I would recommend people to really spend time to go through all of it and understand the plan, especially if it's not your background, because it's pretty detailed.

There's a lot of information in there. And, uh, I guess like trying to understand every square inch of your house is really going to help you, uh, during the process. So I would spend time up front to make sure you understand everything that you got, uh, from DEN, because there's a lot in there. 

Alexis: Insulation and energy consumption was really important to us because we felt like we were building a new house in a forest and taking down some trees to do it.

And when we were finally finished with all the insulation, we had the blower door test to see if our house was passive or to see like, how well it insulated. And the guy who did the test was like, we were like so close to passive, like he showed us the number and, 'oh my gosh, this house is so well insulated'. So that was like really satisfying. Like I think keeping, keeping some of our ideals, like for, you know, not like building new and like developing land and taking down trees, like trying to be as responsible as we possibly could about it. 

Vincent: Yeah. Yeah. We- 

Alexis: -We do have a hot tub 

Vincent: We were hoping that, uh, we'd have a well insulated house, but you don't get the result until you do a blowout test.

And that was extremely satisfying. Like all this time you spend before you close the wall to work on every single detail to, to make it tight. I think it's definitely worth spending time on that. Uh, and the code is what it is, but you can do much better than the requirement and then it pays off over time.

You pay less in utility and it's more comfortable. 

Alexis: It's so comfortable. Yeah,

Vincent: And it's better for the planet. 

18. Final Thoughts & Reflection on the Journey

Mike: That sounds incredible. On behalf of the entire team, thanks so much for spending some time with us today.

And congratulations on your project! It sounds incredible.