Atlas A-Frame: How Ted & Ben leveraged a couple DENs into a modest STR Portfolio

Hi everyone! I was lucky enough to sit down and chat with Ben & Ted the other afternoon. They have built not one but three DEN designs - the A-Frame 2.2, the Modern Loft Barnhouse and the L Barnhouse, and now run STRs with their DENs.

Sit back and tune in, while Ben & Ted explain what they look for when working with a general contractor, how best to position their STR and interact with guests, and what specifically about DEN's plans helped them build their houses out. 

Check out Atlas A-Frames IG here, and their Airbnb listings here. 

1. Meet Ben & Ted: The DEN Power Couple

Mike: So the hard hitting questions first, uh, if you could tell us who you are, uh, and which DEN designs you've built and where that would be a great start. 

Ben: Sure. Yeah. So I am Ben. 

Ted: And I'm Ted 

Ben: and we are....still married after three construction projects, which I think is a pretty big win. Uh, we're here in a place called Ellijay, uh, North Georgia.

Ben: So we're up near the Tennessee border and we have just finished the second and third DEN Project. So we started with an A-Frame, the A-Frame 2. 2 model, which we finished last year. 

Ted: Yep. 

Ben: And, uh, we've just completed a, uh, the L Barnhouse and the Modern Loft Barnhouse as well. 

   

Mike: Oh, wow. Okay. 

Ben: Yeah. We built those last two together.

So we see it as one construction project, but it feels like a thousand, right? 

2. Expanding with the L Barnhouse & Modern Loft

Ted: Yeah. 

Ben: And we're, we're very much in that... final phase that feels kind of frenetic, like trying to get everything finished. We've just listed the properties for rental. Ted's literally just been dealing with like, there's people down there with soil and like landscaping and there's a ton of stuff going on.

So I think other people who have been through construction projects like this will know that feeling, but, uh, it's been a ride, hasn't it? 

Ted: Yeah, so I mean, I think the purpose for us was we were building them for short term rentals. So it's been great because with the A-Frame, we've had that open for a year.

And so that gave us a really good... kind of case study to figure out how to, how to market, and how to, uh... what to do with the next two projects. So we're excited to see where those go. And we're launching them. Right now, right now. 

Mike: Amazing. Amazing. Uh, you know, uh, dare I say, right? Like if we had a DEN Olympics, right?

Mike: I mean, you guys, you might be like sitting with the gold medals on your chest. Right. Because- 

Ted: We love to hear that. I mean, it, it definitely has been, a challenge to, uh, push. My role in this whole thing has been more logistics and operations and I deal with the crews and all of those types of things and pushing to get things completed. And as with all construction, no matter what you're doing, things are, you know, off of the schedule and off of the budget and all of those types of things. 

3. Using DEN Plans to Bring a Vision to Life

Ted: That has been a challenge, but I think the thing that was so fascinating to see at the end of the A-Frame project was that all of the local crews and specifically the subcontractors that saw the work that they did at the end of it really amazed and surprised at what they actually built, because I think it was harder for them to see the vision at the beginning.

Mike: Right, right, right. 

Ted: And, and we pushed really hard, and I think that they got the benefit of seeing that at the end as well, of what they actually were able to create. 

Mike: Yeah, I mean, like, we hear this, like, from time to time, that starting with a DEN plan, and seeing the renders as a way to guide the vision, helps local contractors, trades, kind of like step into this new quality of delivery.

And I see like your social posts all the time, and I'm just blown away by the visual quality, like not only like, like the finished quality of like the building is like incredible, right? But like, but like the content itself is like amazing, right?

Like I'm like, how the hell do these guys not have more followers, like more engagement? Because the content is amazing. Right. 

Ben: We would love more. 

Mike: Sure. Sure. Sure. Hopefully we'll get you more. But yeah, like a few projects like here and there where like folks have really you know, colored within the lines of like our specification and have really delivered as true to the renderings as, as possible.

And I think you guys across three projects now have done that, in a really amazing fashion. Dylan, at the Hutch Asheville is probably going to hear this podcast and be like, 'Mike, you fucking traitor'. Like, um, but. You know, Dylan, you gotta, these guys are like, you know, hot on your tails!

But from someone who's like seen those designs, like from a conceptual drawing through to launching the product through to like seeing our customers build it.

I just got to say, I'm really impressed with, with what you've been able to accomplish. 

Ben: Thank you. Thank you. That's, uh, it's great to hear. 

I think with any kind of project like this where you're so close to it and it's such a long process as well. It's sometimes... difficult to see the wood from the trees and, you know, we built that first A-Frame and we, it's very different to, everything else that's available in terms of short term rentals in this area, which was our intention.

We wanted to build something that was differentiated from everything else that's in this area. But we finished that build and we thought, 'we love this, but is anyone actually going to want to come and stay, in a place like this?' You know, maybe people just do want to come to your kind of, you know, regular kind of log cabin style in the mountains, which is great, and there's a lot of that around here and, you know, sweeping mountain views and everything. I think we stayed very true to the vision that we had. And I think the DEN designs match that very closely. And that's a big part of why we, we went with... you know, the DEN designs in the first place.

And then I also just have this like newfound appreciation for people who do, you know, social as their full time jobs, because that is no joke in terms of the amount of time that has to go into it. I work full time jobs. So I'm doing that social content kind of in my downtime and in my spare time.

And it's, uh, I love it. It's a creative outlet for me, but Um, it's time consuming, isn't it? 

Ted: Yeah. 

Ben: And being consistent with it as well, I think is something that we maybe need to, well, I need to work on a little bit better, but, yeah, it's great to hear. 

Mike: Don't we all though? It's like, yeah.

I mean, like we, we also, I just recently got like, uh, Uh, DGI Osmo 3. One of those like pocket gimbal cameras, um, to just do like more like founder videos, you know? And it's like, I've gotta like sit down, I've got the furry mic, I've got like everything. And it's like, yeah. It's a whole nother activity.

Let's talk maybe a little bit about like the, the DEN plans and like the process, right? And like, now that you've built three of them, it's like, how... you know, like how did the DEN plans help you organize these projects, right? And like, how did it help you build a good relationship to the general contractor or trades people that you were using?

And how did it help to convey your vision for these, for these projects? 

Ted: Yeah, I think you hit on it before with... the renderings and the plans really helped, I think, tell the visual story, especially for, you know, some of our local trades and our contractor who didn't maybe necessarily understand the full vision, at the beginning, it was much easier to kind of show than tell, and that was something that we learned through the process a lot, especially as we were modifying things and we were... trying to describe something and, you know, maybe someone wasn't understanding it as well, and then we could pull up... the renders and we're like, like this, this is what we're looking for. 

4. The Power of a Good Contractor

I think it's also important to note for us when we did the A-Frame, that was our first time building something from the ground up. So there was a lot of stuff also that we just didn't know terminology. timelines, logistics, things like that, that you just learn as you build things.

So we really relied on our contractor to say, Hey, this is where we want to be. This is what we want to do. 

How do we do that? Like, what's next? What's the process? Like, do we need to do this first or this first? And so, I think for us, the most important thing, and we learned this very early on in the A-Frame project, was the contractor partnering with someone who was collaborative with us was really, really key, because we had worked on a different project before, uh, just a renovation project, and that project was great, but it, uh, the contractor just sort of did what, exactly what we asked, and we kept saying, we don't know what we don't know.

So in the A-Frame, partnering with that right person who said, okay, I understand what, what you want to do. I understand what these, what this vision is, but here's how we need to do that. Here's some options. And then we have the. You know, option of saying, no, that doesn't work for us. We like this better and and sort of partnering together.

That was super helpful in the A-Frame. And so we stayed with the same contractor for the L Barnhouse and the Modern Loft Barnhouse. And by the time we got to those 2 builds, which we built together, we already had a really good rapport. He already understood our vision. He understood the DEN aesthetic.

He understood our aesthetic. And it just, it became easier to have those conversations... He would come and pitch us ideas. And you know, a lot of times we would say, 'Nope, that's not what we want, but thanks for pitching that to us'. And sometimes he would get a win and he would be really excited. He's like, 'Oh yeah, I nailed this one'.

And I'm like, 'yeah, this is great'.

Mike: That's awesome. I mean, it's, crazy, three homes in, you guys are semi pro developers at this point. 

Ben: Yeah, 

Ted: I have to say, with permitting and architecture and the engineering, the plans made that process really quick and simple for us, which was also something that we're looking for.

We have other friends who are building a house and, you know, they've been in development for a year and a half now, almost two years. With architecture and engineering and permitting and all those things, they're building something very different. They're building a permanent home for themselves, right?

But we wanted to move quickly. And so I think those plans really helped us go through that beginning stage of the process really easily. Um, and quickly with all of the logistics that we needed to do, which are not as sexy, but. needed and necessary. 

Mike: Yeah. I mean, that, that's, that's pretty consistent with what we hear.

Right. And whether our customers appreciate this or not, it's like, each design that we launch that stays in our catalog... There's like months worth of conceptual work that like goes into that, right. And it's like, it's essentially, you know, when you buy a DEN plan, it's like, you're compressing, all of those meetings with like an architect or designer into like a click of a button essentially. And like, you just get it and like, you can just hit the ground running. Um, and yeah, like a lot of our customers appreciate that, that process acceleration that we offer. It's like crazy, there's so many hours, design hours that go into each of these concepts.

Ben: Yeah. We took a long time finding our Contractor, I think for the reasons Ted mentioned, trying to find someone who, you know, shared the same vision who we felt we could partner with and collaborate with successfully. And there aren't that many where we live to choose from.

So you're kind of choosing from an already, you know, reduced pool. We have quite a lot of friends up here who are construction, general contracting, design. So there's also a little bit of, you know, the resources are spread thin, right? Someone's got a great contractor and they don't want to share the details with you because they don't want, you know, you to steal them away from you.

So that took a long time. And we did explore working with some more local architects. And I think it became very apparent very quickly that none of them could really realize. The, the vision that we had and the idea of being able to, you know, essentially get ready to go kind of off the shelf plans, from a company like DEN just made a lot of sense and it just cut all of that timing out as well, especially because this was a first time construction project as well.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. And so, so the L Barnhouse and the Modern Loft, are about to be ready. You guys are like final punch list on those projects essentially. 

Ted: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, literally right before this I was down there, there was two dump trucks and like 65 crew members down there getting this ready. 

Ben: Yeah, it's like the punch the punch list that never ends I think you go in there and you find something else like a switch is doing something weird and you need to you know Change something but we're right there.

We just got them listed And we have our first guest coming this weekend 

Ted: Tomorrow. 

Ben: Yeah 

Mike: Oh, wow. Holy smokes. That's awesome. 

Ted: Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're, we're there. We're, we're making beds right now. So 

Mike: Amazing, amazing. And so, this is, personal, like design question for you guys. Uh, so have you, you've slept in the A-Frame, correct?

Ben: Yes. 

Mike: Yes. Have you slept in the new builds? 

Ben: We haven't. No, 

Mike: you haven't! Okay. 

Ben: We've spent an awful lot of time in those projects, but, um, we probably should, with the, A-Frame, before we invited guests in, or we had our first kind of paying guests in there, we had a friend come up from Atlanta and we spent you know, an evening there, and we cooked and we hung out and then we all slept in the A-Frame and, you know, part of that was to, um, just experience it for ourselves, but also to figure out if there was anything that needed fixing. And, you know, there are certain things that you just miss when you're, you're sort of thinking bigger picture. It's like. you know, this, this bathroom needs a hook for a towel, you know, that kind of stuff. 

Mike: Yeah yeah, yeah, 

Ben: our first paying guests were great as well. Cause they came in with a full list, with all the best intentions, but they were like, we we'd spoken to them about the fact that they were the first guests.

And we said, we really appreciate feedback. You know, you're the first people in this cabin. And, uh, you know, they came with a list and we, and we fixed all those things and it's, you know, we really appreciated that, but we, we should do a little test run in these, in these cabins. 

Ted: Yeah. We have, um, it's basically some friends and family right this weekend, so, you know, we were asking, we're like, please let us know, you know, what works, what doesn't work where, again, where we need hooks, where we need, you know, 

Mike: Well, let me ask you this, right?

So like, having spent some time, uh, in the A-Frame, what is your favorite space in the A-Frame? Like where do you like to hang out? What makes you think like, uh, 'you know, this is why we did this project' when you're, when you're standing inside of it or on the outside of it?

Ted: Yeah, mine is upstairs in the loft. So where the A-Frame sits on our property, it faces west. So we have obviously the sunset in front of it. And when that sun shines in there and we have the wood paneling on the ceiling, it just makes the whole place glow. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. 

Ted: It's really open, and we did a glass railing across the front of that.

And so you have that double height with the glass. It's just, it's really peaceful. There's some pasture land in front of us with horses and all of that. So it's just a really nice vibe, especially sort of like that late afternoon time. Yeah. That's that's super chill. 

Ben: Yeah. I love every single space in that place, but I, I really love the bathroom, the main bathroom downstairs.

And we reconfigured the setup of that bathroom from from the original plans so that the shower is right at the very end, and it meets that big window that's facing out the back, and we went big with that shower like it is huge in there you can get Like six people in there, if you want.

Ted: It's a party. 

Ben: It is. Yeah. 

Mike: Amazing. 

Ben: That feels like being in a spa. We've said this with all of these projects when we finished, we're like, we kind of want to move in here now. Like our, our house kind of sucks in comparison. I love that, and I, you know, I, I love the upstairs bedroom as well, cause you, you, you get the. you know, the lofted ceiling in there and you get the real sense that you're in an A-Frame construction. 

I think a big part of the reason why we chose that as our very first model to build is just the visual impact of it. Right. 

Mike: Right. Right. 

Ben: And we built it up on a raised piece of land.

So that... elevates it even more for people who are, who are arriving. It's done a lot of heavy lifting for people who are looking to, to book. Just the sort of visual impacts you get of that. 

Mike: Right, right. I can imagine. A-Frames also are like the darling of the internet.

How has that like impacted your success in launching this first project, you know, dovetailing into the next two, like, what did occupancy look like in year one, what is the conversation around this project like for you guys? 

5. A-Frame Popularity & High Occupancy Success

Ted: Yeah, I mean, we've had, I think, from the very beginning, people have been very interested in it from, just the structure itself, and so I would say we have a really pretty healthy percentage of people who are coming because either they want to stay in an A-Frame, they love A-Frames, they're part of that community, or they're looking to build an A-Frame, and we've had multiple people who have come from the DEN case study, who said, I'm looking to build this model.

They came specifically here to stay in it, to feel what it feels like. That's been really nice to talk to those guests, because we can say, 'oh, Here's what we did. Here are the modifications that we made. Here's what you can do' and sort of like reliving that experience and it's a funny thing because it's like, we love to talk about it and the people who are coming specifically because they want to build that love to talk about it. So it's been a nice little community. 

Mike: That's fascinating. 

Ted: I would say with occupancy rates, I mean, we're at almost 80 percent for the year so. It's- 

Mike: Hell yeah!

Ted: It was crazy. We only had three open nights between October and mid January, three open nights total in that timeframe. It was-

Mike: what are you, what are you guys charging a night at that place?

Ted: Uh, it's flexible. Our high season is the fall. It's very similar to Hudson Valley, especially with our terrain here. We have apples, we have pumpkins, all of that, so... that flexes up into the 400 range. Um, normally we're around 

Mike: giving you a virtual pound. Good, good job. 

Amazing. Yeah, 

Ted: normally during the year, it's $300-350 range.

Yeah. Um, obviously in the winter, January, this is our first January and February. I thought it was going to be really down. We had a lot of people. 

Mike: Oh wow, 

Ben: I think we've, we've been surprised, you know, we, we obviously had high expectations for occupancy, but I think even we've been surprised that. you know, how consistently booked it's been.

But, you know, pricing is also something that we've been learning as we go. Right, cause part of it is a comparison with. You know, other rentals in the area and you don't want to price too high, so you're, you know, pricing people out. But I think we've learned that we can push the price, especially during that fall season, because we get a lot of tourists up here from, uh, who are coming from Atlanta.

We get a lot of folks from Florida and also, um, You know, other sort of big Southern cities. So we get folks from the Carolinas and Tennessee and, and those kinds of places. Uh, and, and, and people want that experience and they're willing to pay for it. 

Mike: Yeah. I mean, yes. And it's a, you know, it's a, it's an A-Frame it's a DEN A-Frame, you know, it's like, perfectly appointed and like the finish quality is amazing, you know?

So yeah, I mean, there's a real scarcity around, around experiences like that. 

Ted: Yeah. And I think. Um, we also are trying to curate a whole experience because we live on a farm as well. We have alpacas and goats and chickens and pigs. And that is part of the experience that people get when they stay here is that they can come and feed and pet.

It's like a petting zoo. We don't, 

we don't use it- 

6. Beyond Rentals: Life on the Farm

Mike: hold on. Hold on. You two operate the farm? Yes, 

Ben: We do. Yeah. 

Mike: Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. 

Ted: It's a whole experience. And, you know, we originally sort of designed this idea of like, okay, we're designing this for like, what our friends what we would want to do, right? Some of our friends are, you know, have kids, some of them are single, some of them just want to stay in nice places.

We're like, where's a place that we all could get together. And that was sort of like our vision for this. Yeah, it's really amazing. Obviously, when people come with kids and they feed the animals and whatnot, because they can just walk up the hill and we meet them and they have this whole experience where they can literally get the eggs and take them back to the A-Frame and cook the eggs that they get from the chickens.

But yeah, just the adults, we have had a lot of people who are, you know, adults of all ages who are like, I am here to feed an alpaca, you know, 

Mike: I went to, I went to an alpaca farm recently within the past couple months. Um, because yeah, because my kids are like super into alpacas, uh, and you know, we're here in Philadelphia.

So there's like farms, you know, outside of Philadelphia that, that have them. And it is, it is a magical experience. I have to ask you out of curiosity, right? How do you guys go on vacation? Like, do you have like a farm hand that like, feeds everyone? How do you step away from like a day to day, you know, like operationally complex thing like a farm?

Ted: That's a great question. 

This is what we're trying to figure out after we get these, after we get these next two open is like, okay, we do have some help. We do have people who can operate the equipment. We have people who can help feed the animals. You know, at some point, this is a thing that we want to figure out how to scale that up so that we have a caretaker for the property who can live here and sort of manage the day to day. We're not at that level yet. Right now, you know, we're managing the rentals. We're managing the guests. We're managing the farm. We're managing the social media accounts. You know, we're, we're sort of doing all that right now.

But I think the vision is to... be able to have someone help us. 

Ben: Yeah. And we still, we do travel and we, you know, I think, um, when you move somewhere rural, when you're used to having lived it, we've both lived, you know, been mainly city dwellers our whole lives. Teddy... you know, lived in New York for a long time.

I'm from London. I lived in Sydney and, and spent some time in LA as well. I think when you move somewhere like this -and we moved here because we wanted a change in pace- but there are some, you have to make what's the word I'm looking for. There are some sort of trade offs that you have to make.

And I think sometimes, You know, we see fewer people on a, on a day to day basis. So we do feel the need to get out and travel, but I think that travel also helps give us a lot of inspiration. So a lot of the inspiration we had for the L Barnhouse, um, we pulled from some places we, we stayed in Spain, right.

And in Menorca and kind of. That influence. Um, so it's important for us to get out, but I think it will become increasingly more difficult. I think a big part of operating these rentals is that we were on site here. So, um, you know, We, uh, we interact with all of the guests. We don't have a management company.

And that's a, that's a big part of what we want the experience to be. We don't want it to be transactional. We want people to feel like they're... you know, it's home away from home that they feel like they have everything they need. Uh, but that does require a lot of time and an investment. And I think, you know, we've just been managing the A-Frame up until now. So we're going to see what it's like managing three different, uh, cabins at the same time. The good thing is that they're all built on the same area of the property here. So we're almost, we're seeing it now like a sort of micro resort almost. So you can book out one of the cabins, or you can book them all together.

If you have a larger group, um, it's a beautiful spot down there with a pond and there's walking trails through the woods. So that all feeds into the sort of overall experience that we want guests to have. 

Mike: Yeah. I mean that, I mean, it sounds really. you know, thoughtful, um, and yeah, what a great approach, you know, it's like, anti commercial, it's like relationship driven.

It's, it sounds really lovely. 

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. I think we, we'd also had a lot of, you know, again, because we, we traveled and stayed in a lot of places. A lot of experience with short term rentals where it does feel very transactional or it feels like you'll stay in a place and it's obviously very sort of cheaply furnished and they're just sort of churning through guests and I think that works for some people and I think there's a place for that, but we really wanted to dig into, you know, what true hospitality means and how you feel when you go somewhere where you are getting great hospitality and a big part of that is obviously human connection and, and sort of knowing that the people whose home you're staying in, right?

And the people who create. 

Mike: Yeah, no doubt. Um. Well, cool. So we have three minutes left. I'll ask you one last question before we hop. Um, so if you had a friend, you know, who wanted to endeavor to do this, you know, if they were going to use a set of DEN plans to, to build something of their own, what type of advice would you give them?

7. Advice for Future Builders

Ted: I mean, we hit on it before, but we've had people ask us the same thing. And I was like, get yourself a good contractor that will collaborate with you. Not just someone that's going to implement. you know, whatever you ask, but someone who can come to the table with ideas, someone who can push it a little bit, someone that you can say, 'Hey, I want to do this'.

And they'll be like, 'you're insane, but here's how we can do it', you 

know, or, um, 

Mike: Awesome.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. I think also spending, uh, spending the time. You know, we've mentioned this already. There are so many people out there who are building, you know, DEN plans or building, you know, cabins or A-Frames. There is a whole community on, on Instagram and on social more generally.

And we've had some really, really important conversations with other people who are building and just pulling advice and people asking us for advice. And I think it's been really worthwhile to spend a lot of time building those relationships as well. It can either just be from an inspiration point of view, or you see something and you're like, 'Oh, that looks cool.

Like, how did you achieve that?' Um, or just comparing notes, right? Being like, 'Oh, our builder wants us to do this kind of foundation. Like, what do you think? What did you do on your A-Frame?' Um, I I'd encourage someone to, to spend the time doing that as well. Cause it's kind of a goldmine of, uh, of, uh, information.

8. Wrapping Up & The Future of Their Builds

Mike: That's awesome. Um, well, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. Um, and you know, have to say on behalf of the whole team at DEN. Thank you. Uh, really, really awesome job on the builds. Uh, can't wait to get this interview up on our site and, uh, you know, continue to promote the great work that you guys are doing.

Uh, and yeah, I mean, like just on a personal basis, like I'm just super inspired with what you guys, uh, Uh, are doing on a day to day basis, like, you know, your like lifestyle choices are incredible, right? Like, so It 

Ted: does keep us busy and you'll have to come visit with yeah with the kids I would love to I mean like we by the kids.

I mean the whole DEN team 

Mike: Yes, sure. Sure. I mean like we yes, I bought the camera like I have this like Awesome camera tripod and like a dolly system. So like I can do those like really great, like, like super precise architectural shots where you're like moving into a space, out of a space. Um, but yeah, I would say, you know, if, if there's any like free nights, you know, this summer or something, maybe we'll fly down there, um, you know, on a, on a weekday, something like that, keep it easy for you.

Um, but, uh, 

Ben: yeah, we'd love to have you. 

Mike: Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'll let you run. Um, thanks again. You guys are awesome. Uh, and yeah, keep us posted with the progress. I'm following you on, on social, so we'll keep track of the progress of these new, new projects and yeah, we're all really excited.

Ben: Awesome. Thanks. Great to chat to you. 

Mike: All right.