Customer Interview: Hear Philip H Discuss the Process of Building an Outpost Plus

We’re excited to share an exclusive interview with Philip, a passionate nature lover building his dream Den Outpost Plus in the serene wilderness of Northern Wisconsin. In this insightful conversation, Philip discusses his motivations for constructing a custom cabin instead of buying, his design choices, and the challenges he faced along the way. Whether you’re interested in learning more about building your own Den or simply love hearing inspiring real-world stories, this interview is a must-watch: 

Full transcript here:

Interview Transcript

Philip: [00:00:00] My name is Phillip. My wife is Heather and we are building a DEN Outpost plus in northern Wisconsin.

Mike from DEN: What stage is the product project in right now?

Philip H: Yeah, we're dried in and dry walled. I think where I would maybe if I were to put it on a percentage, I'd maybe guess about 70 percent baked at this point.

Mike: So what made you decide to build your own place instead of just buying something?

Philip: Ah I'll try and keep it abbreviated as much as possible, but it's been a journey. I, my wife and I have been avid outdoors people. We went oftentimes up in, we're in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, oftentimes to Cook County and what we call the North Shore here in Minnesota, looking a lot at sort of land and cabins and new developments that are happening up there.[00:01:00] 

Philip: At one point we looked at a seasonal cabin place And saw five, five cabins and thought, wow, what a cool idea to have a series of cabins that we would rent out for folks in this beautiful part of the country. We put a pin on Minnesota I'm from Wisconsin and started looking in Wisconsin because Somehow it's the same, some of the same beauty and same sort of remoteness that goes in the environs of Wisconsin, but perhaps not to the extent of, I don't know, underappreciated is probably not the right word, but just, Maybe a little less discovered or less explored in some of the more quiet areas of Wisconsin.

Philip: And so we found a great piece of land in the North woods that we just started with just purchasing outright thinking about an eventual sort of development of some sort. So we bought that piece of land. It's 300 feet of shoreline on a little 80 acre lake. That's really quiet and off the beaten path, but still on a paved road to get there.

Philip: We wanted [00:02:00] something that was not like buying a old rustic cabin and kind of perpetuating what seemed to us as outdated or outmoded.

Philip: We didn't want to do something that was huge. And another home so to speak, we wanted to create something that was right sized for visitors and right sized for what we think is the modern update on the cabin experience. We had looked at a lot of different things.

Philip: We actually went through some of the initial DEN designs that were a little bit smaller in footprint, but the initial Outpost design, but went Outpost Plus came out. We said this is the right size for what we're looking for. And we offered sort of the comfort and experience that we hope to bring and provide for folks.

 

Mike: That's awesome. You are my cabin brother from another mother, because everything that you just said is what we're trying to broadcast into the world. And I'm glad that all of that resonated with you. Unrelated. What does the water temperature get to in that lake in let's say end of August?

Philip: It's a deep [00:03:00] lake. It's something at its deepest 88 or 90 feet. So it takes a while to warm up in, in August is definitely the place that it is. I would say, I don't know how The temperature off the top of my head, but when it's a warm day and it's 80 degrees, it's exhilarating.

Philip: That's all I can say. 

Mike: Cool. Back on track to the interview. Which DEN design did you end up picking and was there something special about it that just clicked for you? 

Philip: Yeah, so we went with the Outpost we're looking for something really architecturally unique and interesting.

Philip: Obviously, love the idea of a lot of glass, this notion of having a cathedral in the trees, so to speak, so that you're looking out and seeing as much of the outdoors coming in as possible. And we saw that in several of the designs, but when we saw the Outpost, we really, we had, it seemed something unique, I grew up in an A-Frame home in Wausau, Wisconsin.

Philip: So I always appreciate the A-Frames and that styling, but this kind of felt like an update to that for us, a nice lofted experience and something really visually [00:04:00] unique and stunning to look at. 

Mike: Nice. Nice. And yeah, how does the layout work for you? And how does it either fit your lifestyle or the guest experience that you want to provide to people?

Philip: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's going to be awesome. Just being in it, some of the comments that we've had are, wow, you could really live. here, one could live here. It's plenty of space. Once you get you add that loft and have that extra, 300 plus square feet on that second level, the living space on the main level is, I, for me, ideal and accentuates that idea of it's enough to be inside and make comfortable when you, you need to be, but also again pours out into the outdoors pretty quickly.

Philip: And so it straddles that pretty well for us. I think that was an appeal. The fact that you have a isolated, single bedroom in the back side of the design will be great for guests for us. So you'll have the comfort of having a main level. Bedroom, opportunity to add some additional bedroom and furniture on the loft and have that space be [00:05:00] multifunctional, multifaceted, both as living space and as bedroom space, but then just have it enough on the main floor to really have your kitchen and your couch and chairs to sit and grab a book and read or do the things you need to do to prepare meals.

Mike: Awesome. And so before you mentioned that the project is currently in progress, right? What's been the best part of this whole building adventure so far? 

Philip: Yeah I think for us just seeing things go vertical. Every step of the way has been incredible. We've had some protracted, parts of the project where we get the framing done and then we're waiting and, the seasonality of it and the parts where we're getting people involved to build aspects.

Philip: But for us, like just once we were framed and getting, seeing the size of it and seeing just the angles and unique parts of it was super exciting. Another big next stage for us was just. When the windows came in we started with kind of window openings and as most people experience windows are a long order cycle from ordering to [00:06:00] delivery.

Philip: And so when windows came in, it was just like another for us exhilarating moment because you're imagining this view. And for us, it's Basically at sort of grade right with the lake. So you have this view on the main level directly out to the lake. You're on even footing with that.

Philip: And you've got all these trees around you and creating that sort of cathedral of trees feeling. And just that's what we're looking for an experience. So we've been excited about those little, those big, those little slash big milestones along the way. But for us coming, every time that we see something new, whether it's drywall on the interiors or something along those lines, it's oh yeah, this is really going to be an amazing space.

Mike: Awesome. And then so conversely, right? Like I bet it wasn't all smooth sailing. You mentioned a couple of protracted periods where like certain stages were done and you're waiting for the next stage to start. What has been the biggest headache you've run into during construction? 

Philip: This is probably not [00:07:00] relative to anything with the DEN designs themselves.

Philip: I think us just knowing the right people to come in and support at the right places. And we're from the Twin Cities and so the area that we're building in is a little bit further afield. We didn't know a lot of people. Who would be local to help us out in the beginning. So we brought some folks in to support framing on the front end from the Twin Cities area.

Philip: And that just became difficult to manage some of the steps of the process from afar. So we've broken in and found some great local folks to help us build. We're not. Total DIYers are some elements that we're going to do. I always say ourselves from on the interior side but really I've appreciated finding the right mix of local contractors who know the area and can help us bring this thing to life.

Mike: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I, we asked that question because we want to paint an accurate picture of what it means to build something, building a house will be, one of the biggest and most complex things someone undertakes in their life. It's not just all like perfect [00:08:00] architectural shots of a finished thing.

Mike: Some, sometimes there's some challenges along the way. So we want to be real about that with with the folks that that we help to support. So cool. 

Philip: Yeah, I will mention I'll add this take this into because I think localizing the engineering of the, of the builds is an important step that, one is going to need to take in that process.

Philip: So going in, head first, sometimes making sure that you have the different elements, the designs engineered appropriately for us will be in basically upper Michigan. The Northern parts of Wisconsin, so snow loads are a huge thing that are going to be Part of what we're going to have to manage, but that's something that, that you really just need to consider as you're working through the design.

Mike: That's something that, that we'd love to hear also, because, as we design DENs we have to pick like a general use case, but I've also built like product in a process that helps to enable localization, right? We constantly encourage customers to work with local engineering firms, local designers in some cases and also, obviously like local trades, right?

Mike: [00:09:00] And local contractors. We're really proud of the fact that we're able to enable local economies as well. So that's really cool. What a great tip. We know that you are a DEN fan boy, right? But apart from Dan, like who, who's an architect or a designer that really inspires you and has their style rubbed off on your place at all?

Philip: There's a fabulous. He's an architect out of Duluth, Minnesota and I always butcher his last name but it's Doug Salomela, I believe is how it's pronounced. He's a very much inspired by Scandinavian architecture he has a lot of work in the Twin Cities. And as well as some places up in Duluth and further the North Shore he's a constant sort of person that we would reference when it comes to architectural movements.

Philip: There's local architects in the Twin Cities. One of them is Sala designs as well. So I think we look at some of the new and upcoming stuff out of out of our area in the modern [00:10:00] vein or even Scandinavian inspired vein as well as, just your local, or just your run of the mill stuff that you might see on a, any issue of dwell or modern architecture reference points, cool. 

Mike: And then you talked a little bit about various spots in the house that you really like. But just based on how it's coming together and the time that you've spent in the house, what is your absolute favorite spot in the house? The place that makes you think, yeah, this is why I did this.

Philip: That's gonna be a tough call because I do think it's the loft. I think it's, being up and feeling as though you get a little bit of that in the trees feeling when you're up a little bit higher. But it's gonna be a tough call between that and just being in the main floor living room where we just, you just feel like you're.

Philip: For us at eye view with the trees and lake and being able to look up and look out and feel the sense of awe that you get from having the outdoors coming in. 

Mike: It's nice. And then question on whether or not you've personalized your DEN. So did you [00:11:00] stick to the original plan or did you throw in some of your own ideas?

Mike: And if so, what tweaks did you make? 

Philip: Sure. Yeah. For us, a couple of tweaks and the original. Post design was built on sauna tubes and we decided that we wanted to do a slab on grade so that we could do in floor heating as part of an element that we thought would provide comfort for folks. So that's part of our build is.

Philip: Is doing that we made some adjustments to window framing. We really enjoy like the sort of the modern pieces of both the bathroom and living room windows and where they are, but we wanted to make sure that we could also Expand them to make our views a little bit more picturesque.

Philip: So we did that in the living room. We brought the height of the window up a little bit. We did change the configuration of the bathroom windows just with our sensibilities and Long term maintenance, just thinking about practicality of windows in, in kind of the shower areas.

Philip: We want it to change that up. We want the natural light in there, but we want to make sure that we don't have to worry about it long [00:12:00] term and getting the right sort of elements architecturally probably was a little cost prohibitive for us. So we made those tweaks. They were minor for us and practical of the practical nature, I think.

Philip: So I can't think of anything else that's been too custom at this point, but I think once we get to a little bit more on the finished side, we'll see what we want to adjust in some of the spaces. Thinking particularly about the bench and cubby space that kind of is right next to or adjacent to the steps going up to the loft.

Philip: We have some visions for creating some shelving in there for, a library for guests or storage for guests. 

Mike: That's awesome. Cool. So let's see, moving on to my list here. So yeah, so here's a good one. If a friend was thinking about building their own DEN, what would you tell them?

Mike: Are there any words of wisdom or what was your favorite part of using DEN to kick off this project. 

Philip: I just, I pushed a lot of people to the DEN site just so that they can see some of the incredible designs [00:13:00] and sort through what's out there. And I think the fact that designs continue to get updated and re imagined or, expanded upon, starting with, some initial designs and then really pushing them.

Philip: I think that to me affirms that this is a place of innovation and leading edge design. And so for me, that was attractive. And I think I would Say people just check it out and take a look. See if you find something that, that you like there. And then again, if you need to localize it or think about ways in which you would take that and create a bespoke version of that.

Philip: It was really easy to purchase the designs and think through that and, send off the drawings. We've had compliments from those folks. Building are contributing to the building how easy the plans are to follow and how comprehensive. 

Mike: Oh, cool. So we constantly run into this challenge with customers, there's like a bit of a chicken or egg situation and would love to get your take on it.

Mike: So some of our customers are like, [00:14:00] "Hey, we want to know how much this thing will cost in this place". Let's call it Northern Wisconsin. And we're like, "Hey, we can give you a directional estimate, but the best way to find out an accurate local price is to get the plans. To, to cost them out or price them with a local builder."

Mike: And then our customers say "I can't buy the plans unless I actually know if this is going to be affordable." So what advice would you give to either us or to our customers who are trying to figure out, like, how to budget for or price their project?

Mike: And if there's anything, like that you could say relative to like how the DEN plans enabled you to like, get to a price that might be helpful for us as well. 

Philip: Yeah. For us, we were we were pretty much, we were close to the ballpark, I think, cost wise. If we think about the original sort of guidance that was available on the DEN site, I think, we're in a strange economic Arena or have [00:15:00] been for the last couple of years.

Philip: So like when you look at certain pricing throughout the twin cities or even in northern Minnesota, projects were hitting about 450 a square foot or 500 a square foot, depending on where you're building. We had a sort of a target in mind that we wanted to keep to that, 250 per square foot.

Philip: Project amount. And so I think we're building out from that sort of budget. I would say we're dying close to that. I'd have to double check serve our figures. But, I think there's some decisions that we've been making along the way to determine, how to keep in line with that, I love all of the materials and, material suggestions that DEN provides.

Philip: But we've broken, from those in various places, whether or not we're doing our custom cabinets from a local contractor or deciding on different flooring options or that kind of thing. So for us, I think we started out with a target of what was realistic on that square footage price and have been trying to, [00:16:00] Keep into that realm.

Philip: I think it was good guidance from DEN originally. And I think I know it's variable depending on where you're building for fortunately for us in Northern Wisconsin, it seems to be pretty true to that 250 per square foot. 

Mike: So the last question I have for you is would you do it again? Would you go bigger? Would you go smaller?

Mike: Do you want to, do you want to build another DEN? 

Philip: Yeah, every time I see it design, I think a lot about how, this barn house would be or the Alpine would be we have an adjacent lot to our place, we purchased a second lot. So we essentially have 600 feet of shoreline on this beautiful lake.

Philip: I don't know that we would do it as a. Short term rental, but my, my folks are getting up in those years and we'd love to be able to do something that was a second guest house for them, or they can be comfortable and stay we actually not to get too into the details here, but when we looked at some of the designs early on, we thought about doing something in conjunction with a lot of the local recreation sites that are out [00:17:00] and available where we are, we've got a great yeah.

Philip: Like cross country ski, mountain bike trail system that's burgeoning just 20 miles to the south of us. So we think all the time about where would that sort of that sweet spot be where we're not, building necessarily on our lake, to build out and add pressure to our small lake but finding that right piece of land where we could continue to cultivate and support this idea of a short term rental that, that helps people take advantage of nature and the recreation opportunities that are maybe a little bit still on the upswing in those areas or to some extent places that people really, we feel like.

Philip: Really need to see an experience for themselves. So 

Mike: I mean what a thoughtful approach to to real estate development, and investment and providing an experience To your guests while really just like honoring, some great ideas around sustainability and, sensitivity to the environment.

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